Originally posted by 626570666B7D5B353D3D3D040 link=1318730383/7#7 date=1318807484
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Re: Where to start???
Absolutely certain - picked the offending bean out of the grinder by hand. It looked normal, if burnt, on the outside but the fleshy bit inside was extremely tough, but still not a rock. The friend who roasted them (and his beans are normally excellent - these still tasted divine, but just unevenly roasted - the KKTO got away from him) was also getting hard-grinding noises on his Rocky.... but it powered on through without a hitch.
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Re: Where to start???
Im not really sure about this comment.Originally posted by 6A63736E6E6A6472010 link=1318730383/4#4 date=1318804278The only problem Ive ever had with my Smart Grinder is on a batch of home-roasted beans that had some burnt hard-as-rocks beans among them.
My experience with burnt beans is that the further they go, the easier they are to grind as they are closer and closer to ash.
Are you sure the offending items were not actually rocks?
Back to the actual topic - I used to own a Silvia/Rocky and found it a good combo for a number of years. A Silvia can texture milk quite well with the standard wand. It can cope with milk for 2 coffees without grief, but more than that in one session and it struggles. As a machine for espresso, I always found it performed well and was a good teaching machine for me.
The equipment also held its value well and fetched decent prices when I wanted to upgrade.
However, things have moved along in the last few years and many people are stating that they believe the Breville Smart grinder is probably a better buy than a Rocky these days. The burnt bean conundrum above not withstanding, I do think you need to consider the Smart Grinder.
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Re: Where to start???
I cant comment directly about the Silvias milk texturing ability. Its a single boiler, so Id expect itd have powerful steam for a limited number of cups at any one time.
Thats basically the main drawback of a single-boiler - the number of milky coffees you can make in a row is limited by boiler size. Then you need to wait for the boiler to re-fill and come up to steaming temperature again. The Silvias boiler is 300ml, which isnt huge and for this reason not generally recommended if more than one or two milky coffees at a time are needed.
My BZ09 has a 500ml boiler and big, blustery steam thats generally a little wet unless you bleed off the water first. I also had dinner guests the other night and found making three milky coffees in a row wasnt a problem. My boiler also refills and is ready for action in about 90 seconds from the boiler light going on, so Im not sure if these issues arent over exaggerated.
I think methodolgy helps also - I steam, then pull the shot(s). It good practice to do it that way anyway as youd need to prime the boiler regardless. Might as well prime and pull as far as Im concerned. By the time the boiler light comes on, I need at least a couple of minutes to get the coffees out to guests, prepare more milk, grind and tamp more beans - etc.
As to the Rocky vs SG - you would almost certainly be better going the Rocky if you decide to roast at home AND use the burnt beans. Otherwise, the SG will be fine. And itll be less messy.
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Re: Where to start???
Does the Silvia do a decent foam on the odd occassion that i would like something milky??? I think the Silvia is probably the go... So the Rocky being a better grinder would be good for the home roast?? thanks.
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You could even go a Lelit/Smart Grinder package, which would be cheaper still. The only problem Ive ever had with my Smart Grinder is on a batch of home-roasted beans that had some burnt hard-as-rocks beans among them. A high-end grinder wouldnt have choked on these - but the SG was undamaged and continues to work fine.
The only reason why the SG is something Ill upgrade at some point is because I plan to get into home roasting.
That said, the Silvia/Rocky package does have one major plus - resale value. Check out the sales on this site or ebay. Silvias, even old ones, hold their value REALLY well.
Theres frequently well-cared for examples available here and often youll be able to get a PID thrown in for good measure. (Not that Im advocating PIDing your machine, at least not straight away - note that its not one of the items I added to my wishlist)
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Wow Thanks guys for the very quick replys...
haha I realised that in a year i spend about 2grand on coffee from cafes and when i worked out that i could cut to about 700 i realised that a decent machine would pay for itself.
Will Check out the Silvia and Rocky package (theres one going for about 1150 on one online store but ill keep searching) being the grandson of one of the first real importers of coffee into Australia i have unfortunately caught the coffee bug (and the need for quality).
Would it be better to go a lelit/rocky combo to save the cash atm and then upgrade later???
Thanks you guys are amazing (i have been a guest here for years :P ),
ZM
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Pretty much everyone will tell you the grinder itself is the most important factor.
I myself have the newish Breville Smart Grinder, which is great for the money - it can be had for as little as $170. Ive come up against its limit just this morning however - it was defeated by a roast with some burnt beans in it. Its fairly certain that a more expensive grinder like the Rocky would probably deal better with this.
It is however, one of the least messy machines around.
After that you have a fair choice in machines. Depending on what you get, youll have enough left over for the important little things.
The Letlit and Silvia can be had for as little as @$630 or @$720 but theyre not the only choices, particularly if you look at the used market. I have a Bezzera BZ09 which was used, but cost a little more than these machines.
If you stretch the budget a little you might be able to get up to a heat exchanger (HX) like the Nuova Simonelli Oscar.
Theres also the new Breville double boiler machine.
Most of the machines in your budget range will be single boiler machines, which arent a bad fit for your needs. Theyre good for espressos and are reasonably solid machines that have been known to last years - particularly the Silvia and my Bezzera.
Being relatively new to this, Im in my learning phase - I spent this morning mapping the temperature waves of my machine to avoid the odd cool-ish shot I was getting.
What do I wish I had right now?
- a better tamper, the Pullman would be ideal as Im struggling with getting a level tamp and it has concentric rings that help with this,
- a tamp stand (for the same reason)
- a knock box - if youve used small machines, youll be surprised at the enormous hunk of metal that is a commercial-sized portafilter
I chose the machine I did for its longevity - 10 years isnt unheard of out of a Silvia and the Lelit should come close to that too.
The new Breville DB is an incredible feat of engineering, but its longevity is an unknown. Good warranty tho.
If I had your budget I would still get the same machine (or one of the nice little HX machines that pop up used here from time to time) but a better grinder and those accessories I mentioned.
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Congratulations!! in the coffeesnobs universe your needs define the sweet spot that it is the most popular combo of all
Machine - Silvia!!!
Grinder - Rocky!!!
Roughly equivalent but saving a few pennies on each is a Lelit and Smart Grinder.
Some will say a better grinder is a good investment - Mini Mazzer or Compak but they will probably push you beyond your $1200 max.
Silvia is renowned as capable of producing the holy grail of coffee but a good grind is a must.
Theres no need to go second hand at your price point. If you did a bigger single boiler would be the way to go or Silvia/Lelit with a PID.
With a focus on espresso and only one at that I dont think a dual boiler or heat exchanger need enter your equation. New, they dont fit in your budget anyway.
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Where to start???
Hi Guys,
My Predicament
Budget = 800-1200
Needed = Espresso Machine + Grinder to make decent coffee
I drink aprox 3-5 a day and live alone so at a time it will only need to make at max 4.
To Be Honest the milker on the machine doesnt need to be great as i am much more of a ristretto or machiatto drinker than a latte man.
Any suggestions would be great thank you
or if another thread has been created similar please point me in this direction.
Tah, ZMTags: None
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