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New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

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  • New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

    Im pretty new to coffee (only recently became addicted). Im looking to get my first espresso machine, and have already sorted out a grinder. Im over the ditch (NZ) and my budget for a machine is around 1100 - 1200.


    For this price it looks like I can get a new Rancilio Silvia, or a used prosumer machine Rocket E61 / VBM Domobar Super. The Rocket/Domobar are approximately ten years old, and have just been serviced by an authorized repairer (Im told they are ex trade ins.)


    I was originally set on getting the Silvia, but am worried about the small boiler size and the ability to make decent milk drinks. Buying new would give me peace of mind, but Im worried Id end up being disappointed with the Silvia.


    Any input will be much appreciated!

  • #2
    Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

    Hey 117

    Id be inclined to go with the Rocket or VBM. Both have the E61 head, are heat exchange machines and will autofill the boiler, so they have big advantages over the Silvia.

    Both VBM and Rocket are highly regarded in this forum, as is the Silvia.

    Cheers

    Snif

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

      the older machine has potential to drain finances. You want to either know your way around the inside of the machine or have good ongoing support from the retailer. If buying privately youd be taking a risk in making it your first machine.

      The Silvia makes great espresso and boiler size is more than adequate for you and a friend. If the machine is for entertaining many friends... you need a dual boiler/HXer machine (eg the Rocket/VBM). Entry level dual boiler/HXer machines start at roughly 50% above the cost of Silvia.

      Grinder - sorted. Good. Hope its a good one - rubbish in equals rubbish out regardless of the machine.

      Are you an entertainer? Do guests just want a pot of tea?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

        @SniffCoffee

        Thanks for your reply, I realize they are all pretty good machines that are widely recommended on the Internet, but are in completely different price brackets. I havent seen many discussions about whether to go new or get a used better machine. My main concern about the VBM/Rockets are that they are pretty old at around 9-10 years since manufacture.


        @WantRancilio

        Thanks for your reply. The machines Ive looked at so far have either been recently serviced (element, electronics, seals, thermostat and descaled) or are being sold by a place that has serviced customer trade-in equipment so Id hope they would be problem free for a little while.

        Im a Uni student so wont be entertaining much, but my close friends are also pretty addicted to coffee. Between the 3 of us we have: an aeropress, 2 moka pots, Hario V60 pourover, a Breville thermoblock espresso machine, and a Behmor 1600. So Ive got access to freshly roasted beans which makes an amazing difference.

        For the grinder, Ive just about got my hands on a used mazzer mini. If that falls through Id probably look at a used Baratza Precisio, or maybe the Breville "smart grinder" which has had mixed reviews.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

          Originally posted by 767F7665767D676A607665767D130 link=1318803343/3#3 date=1318807659
          so Id hope they would be problem free for a little while
          expect the best, plan for the worst. Unfortunately there could be an unforseen (albeit unlikely) failure. Make sure you get a parts and labour warranty for as long as you can (3 months perhaps on a 2nd hand?)

          If youre concerned about the milk, let me tell you the steam on a HX will blow you away compared to a thermoblock! I just bought a 2nd hand HX and Im very happy with the steam. The Silvia will be a bit slower since you have to heat the boiler above brew temp to make steam, then cool it again.

          The smart grinder would be slightly under-specced for a Rocket / VBM. Mazzer should be better so long as the burrs are good. But be prepared to spend some time perfecting the grind/dose/tamp with unpressurised 58mm baskets.

          good luck! (PS Hawkes Bay has some good roasters if youre anywhere near...)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

            Originally posted by 4941494E4442200 link=1318803343/4#4 date=1318808557
            expect the best, plan for the worst.  Unfortunately there could be an unforseen (albeit unlikely) failure.  Make sure you get a parts and labour warranty for as long as you can (3 months perhaps on a 2nd hand?)

            If youre concerned about the milk, let me tell you the steam on a HX will blow you away compared to a thermoblock! I just bought a 2nd hand HX and Im very happy with the steam.  The Silvia will be a bit slower since you have to heat the boiler above brew temp to make steam, then cool it again.

            The smart grinder would be slightly under-specced for a Rocket / VBM.  Mazzer should be better so long as the burrs are good.  But be prepared to spend some time perfecting the grind/dose/tamp with unpressurised 58mm baskets.

            good luck! (PS Hawkes Bay has some good roasters if youre anywhere near...)

            Those are very wise words! I cant really decide, Ive seen the steam output of the Rocket and VBM and was pretty impressed, but havent been able to see a Silvia in action.

            Another grinder Ive been looking at is the Kompak K3 Touch, which by all accounts seems to be really good. I could afford to buy it new as well.

            At the moment Im leaning towards the Silvia, but am worried about the steaming capacity. I suppose even if I upgrade later the Silvia should keep its value.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

              there are more prestigious single boilers with boilers double the size but the price jumps are big.

              The 300ml Silvia boiler is fine for steaming three cups (you and your 2 mates) - as long as theyre not soup bowls.

              The used VBM / Rocket is more exciting but risky. And not quite as portable - a factor for a uni student?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                Originally posted by 777E7764777C666B617764777C120 link=1318803343/5#5 date=1318823554
                Kompak K3 Touch
                yep - theres a great comparison between the K3T, MM, and M4D somewhere (cant find the link). Each has + and - but each will do a great job. Im leaning toward the K3T for the price factor also.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                  Originally posted by 3E363E393335570 link=1318803343/7#7 date=1318835288
                  yep - theres a great comparison between the K3T, MM, and M4D somewhere (cant find the link).
                  Greg Pullman will be so disappointed in you ;D
                  http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/mini-k3/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                    Thanks for all the advice, I think Id be best served with a new Silvia. The VBM/Rockets are obviously better machines, but I lack the knowledge and experience to adequately judge their used value and condition.

                    Ive been offered a pretty good deal on a new Silvia, which I think I will take sometime later this week. If I do feel the need to upgrade, I think the Silvia will still hold most of its value so I wouldnt necessary suffer a great loss.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                      Originally posted by 3628303D2B2833325C0 link=1318803343/1#1 date=1318804255
                      will autofill the boiler
                      I only have a Saeco V V and would like to upgrade as well so i was wondering what you meant by this, doesnt the Silvia boiler refill automatically as you use the hot water, the same as the Saeco V V does.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                        Originally posted by 213A3B2C3864550 link=1318803343/10#10 date=1318942667
                        ... i was wondering what you meant by this, doesnt the Silvia boiler refill automatically as you use the hot water, the same as the Saeco V V does.
                        SI(ngle boiler machines are manual fill, as a rule. YOU have to turn on the hot water switch and open the valve, or turn on the brew function to allow the steam in the boiler to be displaced by the inflow of water until the boiler is filled. With an auto fill machine (all HX and DB machines) There is a sensor in the steam boiler that triggers electronics to turn on the pump and open a solenoid to allow water to be pumped into the boiler to a level regulated by the depth of the sensor. This happens even if the user is not in attendance as long as the machine is on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                          Originally posted by 20292033202B313C362033202B450 link=1318803343/0#0 date=1318803343
                          my budget for a machine is around 1100 - 1200.
                          Should be able to get a PID Silvia for around that price. That will make steaming a little easier and wiil be capable of seriously good shots.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                            Maybe not in $NZ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New Silvia or used VBM Domobar Super / Rocket E61

                              Just a quick update, I pulled the trigger on a Silvia. It should arrive later today. Still undecided on a grinder at the moment, but I have use of a friends Sunbeam EM0480 for a week or two while hes away.

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