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  • Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi all,

    I have recently (under three weeks ago) purchased this machine, along with a krups grinder (GVX2) and a Sunbeam bang bang waste box. I know this isnt quite as nice as the ever popular silvia / rocky setup but it is a setup I was quite proud of up until today, as I had been making some nice coffee using fresh beans from a little roaster with an online shop. When I say nice, I mean a hell of a lot better than I have ever had at home before (previously using french press and supermarket coffee)

    So anyway, I have been reading this site and others, tasting new beans, trying different grinds of previous ones, playing with tamps, working on my milk, attempting late art (which I just cannot do btw but thats another story) but anyway. So over the three weeks since I have had it, it has been in constant use. I mean I work full time so not all day, but I have been pulling at at least 10 double shots a day from it (I dont drink them all some are just practice / for others) I know this is a personal machine and nothing like a high use cafe machine, but even so I thought this machine could deal with it.

    This morning whilst making my coffee, the handle / head came off and sent coffee and grinds everywhere. This annoyed me somewhat, but after reading the manual and finding I had done everything right (and pretty much as per the previous however many shots) I put it down to me not paying attention and not securing the handle correctly. But then this afternoon, it happened again! This time it wasnt on the metal cups they had provided but on the fine itialian espresso glasses my girlfriend had sourced for me! It cracked them, and sent hot water everywhere. Now, this was just a warmup shot (to get the glasses and head nice and warm) so it was definitely not my grind or tamp as the manual suggests, and as this happened this morning I had been very careful when securing everything so it was not that. The manual says the rubber needs to be replaced every 6-12 months and I have had the machine less than three weeks so the only thing I can see it being is a defective head.

    Anyway, I am not all that impressed anymore and am wondering what I should do about it. Of course I will contact a service center tomorrow and see what they suggest, but what do you guys think? I dont know if I should stay with this machine. I am still very much an amature at this stuff, so would it be a waste of money shelling out for say a silvia? Should I demand my money back and get sunbeams new paul bassett machine? I am just not comfortable putting nice cups under this machine anymore

    What do you all think? Should I just fix my current machine and spend a little more on a nice tamp and some more quality coffee? (I am still using the plastic tamper that came with the machine) or should I get my money back and go with something else? Am I being unreasonable / silly not wanting to place nice cups under this machine anymore?

    Thanks for any replies and sorry about the essay


    More Information:
    Grinder - http://www.krups.com/krups/All+Products/Coffee+Grinders/Products/GVX2/GVX2.htm
    Machine - http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_id=279&sec_id=26
    Grinds Bin - http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_id=342&sec_id=21

  • #2
    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    ok if this alsp happened on the warm up cycle where you actually have no coffee grinds in the filter, then it may well indicate that your coffee filter is blocked up with fines and needs to be cleared....that is, it is placing a lot of back pressure against the flow of water / pumping pressure through the group, and the resulting hydraulic pressure takes the path of least resistance which is to unwind / blow the group handle off the group.

    Clearing the filter should fix the problem & if all this is the case, this is normal wear and tear and is not a warrantable problem.

    .....you could be grinding the coffee too fine for this domestic machine.

    Regardz,
    FC.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

      I owned a sunbeam machine for nearly 2 years, so Im very familiar with the problem, and I feel your pain!

      From what I could see, it comes down to two problems:

      1. The dual-wall crema enhancing basket - at the bottom of the basket is a little chamber. All of the holes at the inside bottom of the basket flow into this little chamber, where there is a build up of pressure, and it all jets out of that one little hole at the outside bottom of the basket, frothing up the coffee.

      As FC mentioned, the holes at the bottom of the basket can get clogged, so can teh hole at the bottom. But what also happens is that the little chamber builds up with coffee oils and gunk over time, and eventually nothing gets through at all.

      My solutions were to wash them out thoroughly every night (as in, put them in the sink/dishwasher), insert the portafilter and bakset with no coffee and run water through it at the end of the day, then take out the basket and shake it over the sink (youll hear water sloshing around inside the little chamber) till theres no sloshing sound ... and every couple of weeks soak them in citric acid (you can buy little tubs of it for less than $2) - try about half a tablespoon, in a bowl with enough hot water to cover the basket. Then just sit the basket on the surface of the water, which will slowly work its way through the chamber, into the main part of the basket, until the basket sinks. then just let it soak for an hour or so. Obviously you want to rinse it all off before brewing another shot.

      2. the other problem is the design of the group head seal. Its soft rubber, so it stretches easily - youll often get leaks around the seal, and if you load your basket with too much fresh coffee, it will just allow the pf to blow out as the coffee expands.

      This happens regularly during shots, or at least it did for me. My solution? Use one hand to hold the pf handle in place, the other hand to secure the machine. If you use the manual button to brew rather than the volumetric dose buttons, your nose is a good button presser to stop the shot!

      If youre not keen to spend more money for a while, this machine will do you well. You can look into different baskets so theres no crema-enhancing chamber, and a few other modifications - but theyre still a nice little machine if you dont mind what Ive said above ... all machines have their little quirks and problems.

      RE: milk frothing/latte art - you may have already done this, but removing the rubber froth-enhancer does wonders. Read the milk frothing guide over at CoffeeGeek, and youll be pouring macchiarti in no time! If you check out the first page of the macchiarti thread, the first photo was made on my old sunbeam.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

        Hi there FC,

        Thanks for the quick reply!

        I did guess this and used the provided cleaning spike to clean the filter to the best of my ability. It didnt appear blocked but as it has two floors (a crema enhancer or some such) it is hard to tell. It has not happened since, but this is probably because I have held onto the handle every time (this gets tedious....)

        I will try some courser grinds when I get home this afternoon and see how I go.

        Thanks again for the help!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

          mattyj thank you so much for your reply!

          I do remember reading something about a replacement basket, come to think of it it was probably a post by you I will look into getting one of these as soon as I can.

          I have removed the froth enhancer device, I am getting to a point where I can make some nice looking milk. To my untrained eye it even looks like the micro-foam everyone talks about, but I am sure I am just dreaming Once I removed the froth enhancer it took me a good while to get the milk to froth without the machine screeching like an injured animal!

          What other modifications did you make to your sunbeam? Did you stick with the plastic tamp or source another one?

          What have you upgraded too?

          Thanks for your post and encouragement, I might stick with this for as long as I can. I will see how I go

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

            Muzzi,
            I too know your pain… the EM5800 was also the undoing of a number of my treasured coffee cups. It got to the point where a never took my hand of the pf handle. A face full of broken glass and hot grinds sucks, is dangerous, and is the reason that my wife will never touch that machine again!

            RE basket replacements - while much talked about on various forums by helpful members such as mattyj… they are very hard to find! The particular one matty was talking about is no longer carried by krups.. although I wouldn’t be sure as all krups staff I talked to have obviously never used or even seen one of their own machines.

            I ended up drilling about 20 more tiny holes in the underside of the filter basket to try and bypass the dual wall system.. I don’t recommend that as it was time consuming, stupid and didn’t really work. After I got a new basket the handle snapped of the porta filler! Over three weeks to get a new one from the great people at Sunbeam and to cut a long story short I now own a Silvia.

            I know that I could of got this machine to perform if I had persevered so please don’t listen to my ranting, I was just trying to reassure you that you’re not alone. Listen to the encouragement and helpful advice of those above. Make sure you post your art (I’m still crap) and please let us know if you do source a new double basket. I would still love to get hold of one for the EM5800’s new owners.

            Cheers,
            Matt

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

              Sunbeam, eh. Dont they make electric blankets? Enough said.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, dont need to buy no stinking new or replacement "baskets"....

                As long as the filter is made of stainless steel ONLY and there are no other substances particularly plastic etc in there, then the situation is easily taken care of....

                Place the bottom of the filter straight into the flame of a gas cooktop or BBQ or use a butane torch and literally, burn the crap out that which is blocking the free passage of wet coffee through the bottom of the filter.

                This can also be done by placing the filter straight down onto an electric "ring"....

                But of course it wont work with induction cook tops.

                Beware, the smell of burning coffee "dregs paste"  and the resulting smoke is hard to take and will linger in the house so use the exhaust fan or do it outside..

                After a few minutes pick the filter up with pliers and cool under water...you can also take outside and spray it with the high pressure hose after the above "burn" treatment..to clear the carbon.

                Away you go again until the next time....

                Regardz,
                FC.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                  yeah, you can do that ... but Im talking about the sunbeam dual-wall baskets ... maybe you havent seen them, FC.

                  Below is a photo of the inside of a sunbeam double basket (top), and the krups basket, which seems to be hard to get now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                    ... and heres a pic of the bottoms of the filter baskets. Look closely. Notice that the sunbeam (again, top) has a few divots, but only one tiny hole in the middle. The krups (bottom) is just like any normal 53mm basket. No crema-enhancing doo-dads.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                      the end result is that theres a small chamber added onto the bottom of the basket, which adds back pressure, frothing up the coffee to make crema. Ill leave it for you to decide if its real crema or not.

                      the other end result is that even if you burn out all the coffee crud, it will still be stuck in this chamber which you cant pull apart ... heres a pic from the sunbeam site as to how it works...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                        Originally posted by muzzi link=1128380756/0#4 date=1128386481
                        What other modifications did you make to your sunbeam? Did you stick with the plastic tamp or source another one?

                        What have you upgraded too?
                        Well ...

                        I broke a lug off my portafilter doing the above! My sunbeam came with a light aluminium portafilter (they put a weight in the handle to make it feel heavy!), so it snapped pretty quickly. I bought a chromed brass pf to replace it, its the same as your machines portafilter.

                        I took out the black plastic stabilising baffle from inside the portafilter and plugged up the screw hole with a screw, washer and nut - I found that all it did was to make an uneven pour (70% out of one spout, 30% out of the other), and coffee would flow underneath it, get stuck there and go rancid. It would start to stink after a couple of days.

                        And I got the basket pictured above.

                        I recently upgraded to an Expobar Office Pulser - mainly because the sunbeam was suffering from some internal bleeding (you know theres something worng when it starts leaking from the casing during a shot!), and it would take forever to make enough coffees when friends come over, which is very often.

                        Otherwise, I got some really good shots out of it! It taught me a lot of the practical stuff of dosing, tamping, milk frothing etc etc.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                          Muzzi, when you say "the handle came of" I presume there are no broken lugs, and it unwound itself off the group head. I used to have a machine which caused this when the pressure became excessive. The 2 causes were: coffee ground too fine, and, more frequently, a dirty, blocked shower screen, gunked up with dregs.

                          Have you removed the screen and cleaned it? Water and a scrubbing brush will do the job.

                          I cant see how an improper seal would cause the portafilter to fall off. The leakage of pressure should ensure the portafilter stays in place, as there would be nothing to unscrrew it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                            Yes Matty I am familiar with the double bottomed filters and I cant see why the method described wont work....and it wont cost anything but a few minutes time to try.

                            Or,

                            if as you say the krups single skins are hard to get, Muzzi could take his group handle and double bottom filter along to the nearest saeco reseller & see if their standard single skinned domestic filters can be interchanged....

                            Or,

                            if the saeco filters dont fit and if Muzzi is up to spending a few dollars more, he could soak the offending filters in (commercial) espresso machine "cleaner" at an arbitrary interval of say....once a week. The "cleaner" is readily available from any commercial espresso machine service provider & is specifically intended for the purpose of removing such oily pasty desposits from the groups of commercial esp machines....should therefore work very well on the double bottomed filters.

                            Regardz,
                            FC.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

                              Originally posted by robusto link=1128380756/0#12 date=1128404186
                              I cant see how an improper seal would cause the portafilter to fall off. The leakage of pressure should ensure the portafilter stays in place, as there would be nothing to unscrrew it.
                              If it doesnt start leaking until pressure starts to build up in the portafilter when the leak starts the water acts as a lubricant between the PF and the seal with the pressure inside the PF then able to blow the PF off.

                              Java "Dont ya love physics?" phile
                              Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                              Comment

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