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Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

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  • ajay
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    I recently put an Auber PID controller in my Silvia. Like most post PIDders, I am very pleased with the improvements to my machine. It looks good too, which was certainly a consideration in choosing this kit.

    I went for a kit with steam control, which added a bit of time to the installation as you have to remove both the front and back panels to get at the steam switch. Estimated requirements were 1.5 hours, a screwdriver and a small amount of alcohol. I took two hours and a medium amount of alcohol. It was pretty straightforward and well documented, but there are a lot of steps involved.

    Initially I had an overshoot on recovering from a shot using the default settings, but a couple of prompt emails from the supplier allowed me to fine tune the parameters (bumped up P a bit). Temperature now returns to my set value within a minute with no overshoot, remaining stable within +/-1 degreeC. This is the performance that I was hoping for, so I am well pleased.

    The steam control is good as I have bumped up the cutoff/on point, giving me heaps of pressure and allowing the power to stay on during steaming. I have to turn it down.

    This post-warranty mod is definitely worthwhile. A fellow snob has links to a photo set of the installation process here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1207560453

    cheers
    Andrew

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Great to hear Stu..... 8-)

    The Zaffiro is comparable on paper to the very popular Domobar Levetta machine that a lot CSers have bought so Im sure youre going to enjoy getting to know how she works. Yes, Jim is an absolute gentleman and a pleasure to deal with and I wouldnt have expected anything less from him. Enjoy your new acquisition Stu and Happy Brewing.....

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigstu22
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    A wee update. After ordering my PID kit, I got the chance of not one, but two second hand E61 machines at prices I couldnt refuse. Ended up getting an Isomac Zaffiro which Im over the moon with.

    A week out of my three week wait for the PID had passed and Jim very kindly and quickly cancelled my order and refunded me. So, whilst I cant personally recommend on quality of product (as though Id need to-I think there are more than enough very happy customers on this and other forums already), I can thoroughly recommend Jims customer service-thanks Jim!

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  • thoang
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Originally posted by bigstu22 link=1144669688/75#87 date=1203967441
    Thanks for the input, guys. Decided I just couldnt be bothered with the hassle of the less expensive route-ordered a kit from Jim at pid.kits yesterday. Cant wait!
    I am in the same boat and ordered mine last week. 3 weeks cannot come fast enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Excellent choice bigstu 8-),

    Cant go wrong with one of Jims professionally prepared kits..... Keep us in the loop after you get the mod completed ,

    Mal.

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  • bigstu22
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Thanks for the input, guys. Decided I just couldnt be bothered with the hassle of the less expensive route-ordered a kit from Jim at pid.kits yesterday. Cant wait!

    Leave a comment:


  • dumiya
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    I am about 5 months into my silvia/pid(watlow)
    I feel really in control of my coffee making.  To be able to be see what the actual temp is and to adjust its max feels really good and to have the temp maintained with such accuracy.  Also with steaming to be able to start just before the thermostat cuts in gives max steaming with the element on all the way down.  I feel the silvia/pid combo really does make a difference.  I have not tried to do any reprogramming I just adjust the temp a bit.
    dumiya

    Leave a comment:


  • reubster
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    bigstu22,

    Hi Mate

    Firstly, Im only two weeks into my silvia/pid, but from the very first shot, I can thoroughly recommend going down the PID path.

    My unit is similar [bought from a fellow cser] and I was able to get it to work well, albeit with a few quirks.
    As others have said, if you know what youre doing and you happy for a challenge/fiddle, these PIDs are great value.
    In my opinion, they are not of the same quality as a true industrial grade PID [such as a Watlow which would probably last as long as your Silvia] will , but obviously you weigh this up in your assesment.

    If youre a little unsure of your skills or just want the warm and fuzzy feeling of installing something that has been fully calibrated and will run perfectly without any input from yourself, you should also check out these kits, they represent the benchmark:

    http://www.PIDKits.com

    Leave a comment:


  • bigstu22
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Thanks for the advice, Mal. Will keep you posted

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Looks to be the goods bigstu22,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs by the way..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    As with anything bought from evilbay, all the usual caveats must apply but they look to be a reasonably decent outfit. If you end up buying it, all the best with your Silvia Mod.....

    Cheers,
    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigstu22
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Hello from Scotland! I noticed this somewhat old post and was looking for some advice. I have a Silvia and want to PID it. Ive come across this item on ebay UK:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ksid=p3907.m29

    It looks VERY similar to the Auber unit mentioned earlier. Do you think it is the very same unit?? If it is I could be tempted.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Good to hear CB,

    Itll certainly make life a lot more interesting now when dialling in temps to suit different bean varieties/roast profiles, just a walk up effort now to select the Setpoint and enjoy the coffee as its meant to be enjoyed.

    RTDs are intrinsically more predictably accurate than t/couples but usually contain more mass and it is this which usually causes the "lag" you noticed. This of course doesnt matter in most applications where RTDs are used but when trying to control the wildly aberrant dynamics of the small boilers in most domestic espresso machines, anything that adds to the delay in controller response is a bad thing. Anyway, youve got it sorted now and thats great. Hopefully your short journey to PID satisfaction will help others who may be experiencing similar initial tuning problems. All the best,

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • CBowers
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Thanks again for the steering. Just finished pulling the new thermocouple from my roaster and temporarily hooking it into the Espresso machine. Ill source another online, as suggested. The last one I bought locally, Ive just thrown out. Too cheap, and doesnt agree with my other TCs and the RTD on the boiling point of water :-(

    I did some heating/cooling runs with the PID controlling using the RTD, while I sampled the same spot with the TC on a digital thermometer. RTDs may be more accurate, but the lag (compared to the TC), at least with this one, is a good 5-10 seconds. Im sure this is accounting for some of the swings. I can program them out, but it sure makes the shot recovery glacial.

    I had a family function this afternoon, and bantered on it with my brother in law whos an engineer. Ive now got a 10 pound to


    me, "Process Dynamics, Modeling, and control". A little light reading. He felt Id have benefitted from a fuzzy logic function (which my Auber seems to lack, but its TET7100 twin seems to have). It seems in many posts people turned this off though.

    In the end, I moved to the TC, re-auto tuned with the temp just 10deg below the set point (222F for about 196 below the grouphead). Much faster sensing change than the RTD.
    Nudging Damp constant up a bit, and substantially bumping the Integral time, now has it solidly calling for heat through the shot to minimize cooling through the shot (drops about 15deg, but I have a tiny boiler), and it comes right to the set point without overshoot.

    Very nice.

    Thanks for all the input.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Originally posted by CBowers link=1144669688/75#78 date=1179597751
    Cycling the power after a large draw down, has it slowly creep up to the set point. But so slowly, I think it may be less time to let it blast through and cool back.
    Gday again mate,

    From what you say above, Id recommend reducing the "SouF" setting by 0.1 at a time until you get a response that is reasonable. Regarding the Autotune, this wont really do anything other than arrive at PID values that provide control for a Steady State situation, its really only intended to get your controller operating within the ballpark to suit the particular physical constraints of the application it is being used for.

    In order to get the unit to control the boiler in the manner that you want, you will have to alter the various PID parameters until the controller response is as close to your preferred "ideal" as is within the capability of both the controller and the boiler/element of your machine. That is why I suggested brushing up on some basic PID theory and use the guidelines within the tutorial link above to "tune" your controller as appropriate.

    Once you get a feel for how your controller/boiler combination responds, it wont be long before its behaving the way you want it to. All the best and have fun ,

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • CBowers
    replied
    Re: Project PID Silvia -Melbourne

    Thanks for that. The link was also helpful. It did end a little abruptly for me.
    Power cycling certainly is pretty dramatic. Without, it rapidly advances up and through set point. Cycling the power after a large draw down, has it slowly creep up to the set point. But so slowly, I think it may be less time to let it blast through and cool back.

    So given that, Im trying an auto-tune now after a power cycle and will compare those numbers.

    Regarless Im in a great mood for testing. I came down this morning to a pre-warmed machine (timer) sitting dead on the set point. I ground 2 day old roasted beans for a ristretto, and pulled the first god-shot Ive had in a couple months. Taking a spot in one of the top 10 shots Ive had anywhere, home or cafe (which is a reasonably high bar here in the Vancouver/Seattle region).

    Leave a comment:

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