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Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

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  • #16
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    I guess what really matters is which is more thermally stable, not so much how that thermal stability is derived. Sunbeam and Rancilio go about it using different methods, and it appears that for whatever reason the Silvias performance is superior in that regard. My understanding (without having opened the Sunbeam) is that the Silvia has a greater quantity of metal in the brewing areas which provides that thermal stability. That may well not be the case, but a number of factors referred to in the review point to a greater thermal inertia in the Silvia than the Sunbeam (warm-up and cool-down times for example). These would have to be satisfactorily explained some other way were that not the case.

    There are certainly other ways the test could have been run but that was what I could do with the limited resources I could supply out of my own toolkit. Would be good to see someone elses take on the same thing!

    Greg

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    • #17
      Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

      Scientific discussion posts have been relocated to [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1177333871]This Thread[/link]

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      • #18
        Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia


        Mal, my discusions were on topic and relating to the review. If the review is going to be as unbiased as possible its important that these discussions take place in context IMO.

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        • #19
          Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

          I wasnt singling out your posts Mark, several posts were discussing highly technical material with regard to the performance of different boiler designs and is, in my opinion, deserved of its own thread...

          Cheers,
          Mal.

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          • #20
            Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

            I wouldnt say it has highly technical. Anything can be highly technical....we were merely just discussing basic physics that pertained to this review

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            • #21
              Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

              With all due respect, it may not have been highly technical to those who know what theyre talking about, but some of the terminology was certainly above my head. While I agree the review was the seed for this discussion, and that this discussion pertains to the review as far as the Silvia and the 6910 use the technologies being discussed, its still a subject which can easily stand alone. Also given the thread is supposed to be commenting on the review, so much time had been spent on the details of boilers and thermoblocks that someone wanting to raise a different aspect of the review would almost be hijacking the thread by commenting on its original content. I think thats a good test of when its appropriate to split a thread so I respect Mals decision to do so.

              Im sure the new thread will have references back to this one so hopefully this thread can continue discussing the review in general and the new one can deal with the specifics of thermodynamics, emissivity of canned worms and radiation densities of eutectic alloys!

              Greg

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              • #22
                Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia


                OK, the gist of what I was try to say in overly technical jargon is that "heavier" isnt necessarily better in as far as thermal stability is concerned.

                The thermometry is not conclusive, but is used in a suggestive manner that belies the different designs.

                The real test of any relevance to CSers is a blind tasting comparison, and this wasnt done. But Greg admitted that he couldnt fault the Sunbeam on taste to his untrained palate.

                The overall conclusion is however reasonably balanced.

                Cheers,

                Mark.


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                • #23
                  Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                  Nice work, however I feel could of been a tad bias as you have a Silvia and have worked on getting the best results out of this machine, I wonder if the outcome may of been closer in the output quality if you had the EM6910 for a longer period.

                  It comes down to rating the points of difference between the machines. At this price point.

                  One point that I didnt see mentioned and is important is how long from initial switch (cold) each machine was ready for use. I imagine that with the thermal properties of the brass boiler and the fact that is heating 300ml of water that it would need a much larger element to heat the water and boiler from the initial cold position from cold.

                  I know when I bring company home and offer a coffee I dont want to have to wait 10 minutes for the boiler to heat to temp before we can even make starting a coffee.

                  Also as over 50% of people drink milk coffees the lower quality of the output would be well masked by the milk.

                  As you say horses for course but I think on the review details the EM6910 is the bang for buck machine.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                    Originally posted by Coffee_guy link=1177174323/15#22 date=1177728347
                    One point that I didnt see mentioned and is important is how long from initial switch (cold) each machine was ready for use. I imagine that with the thermal properties of the brass boiler and the fact that is heating 300ml of water that it would need a much larger element to heat the water and boiler from the initial cold position from cold.

                    I know when I bring company home and offer a coffee I dont want to have to wait 10 minutes for the boiler to heat to temp before we can even make starting a coffee.
                    This was actually discussed in his review and was the basis for debate which was then segmented in to another forum thread.

                    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1177333871

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                    • #25
                      Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                      Yeah sorry;

                      Didnt read it correctly, originally just thought that it was saying that 20minutes was unacceptable heat up time, not that the Silvia took 20minutes.

                      One would almost need a coffee just waiting for the thing to heat up .lol.

                      A 20 minute heat up time is totally unacceptable.

                      So by the time you turn it on let it heat up, grind you coffee (because we dont want it stale so we would only grind when the machine is ready) , heat to steam temp and warm your milk it would be 25 minutes.

                      Could get a pizza delivered faster.

                      So working on the premise, if I owned a Silvia I should offer my guest a coffee and pizza because they will arrive about the same time .lol.

                      Give me a thermoblock machine everytime. - hahahahaha

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                      • #26
                        Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                        Coffee_guy,

                        There is no doubt a thermoblock is much faster... but a boiler machine can be left on so it is always ready if desired... totally overcoming the problem.

                        Offering someone a coffee should be about giving then a great coffee experience - not something on par with - or even not as good as most cafes dish up.....

                        After all if your main criteria for selection of the machine is the speed of producing a "coffee"- there is always instant coffee :P :P :P and no machine can equal that for speed (I wont comment on the quality )

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                        • #27
                          Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                          Or buy a timer for the power point - set to switch on 45 mins before you expect to return home with friends - machine could be all ready and waiting to go! ( I dont own a Silvia, so assume there are no safety issues doing this if you are late).

                          Kay

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                          • #28
                            Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                            My machine is on a timer.
                            On before I wake up.
                            Off before I go to bed.

                            If I need a coffee at any time, the machine is ready.

                            What if someone drops in unexpectedly looking for one of your great coffees?
                            Its happening to me more lately.
                            But its not a problem because the machine is ready.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                              IMHO you cant beat having your machine - any machine that is (including commercials).... on whenever you are about .... and as both kay and Thundergod have sad above - it is dead easy to do.

                              If you, other members of your household or visitors feel like a great coffee at any time - just walk up to the machine, do the grind, tamp bit (flush if necessary) and make the coffee.

                              It is just so convenient, and the power consumed isnt that high (even with a two group commercial )

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                              • #30
                                Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                                Java: "Offering someone a coffee should be about giving then a great coffee experience ..."

                                If you can have both fast warm up and a great coffee experience then even better!!!

                                Cheers

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