Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Coffee_guy:

    As mentioned in the reviews conclusion, the result was very much horses for courses, and the purpose of the pros and cons table was to let each individual see those with which they can decide what suits.

    Originally posted by Coffee_guy link=1177174323/15#24 date=1177730364
    A 20 minute heat up time is totally unacceptable.
    In your opinion. But not mine. I mainly use my Silvia on the weekends or when were having friends around. In each case I have at least an hours notice for the drink serving time so the machines on well in advance. Im happy to work with that timeframe for what I consider to be a superior drink. Given its horses for courses, Im not saying thats going to suit everyone, but nor is it fair for you to say 20 minutes for warmup is unacceptable for anyone other than yourself. Each individual can consult the pros and cons table and decide for themselves.

    There are very few dogmatic absolutes on either machine which apply equally to each person, so we have to be careful not to pick out a single point from either machine and use it to make a blanket statement which purportedly applies to everyone.

    Greg

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

      I use a $4.95 timer from bunnings- Ill put it on for an hour before I drink. You can also cheat with a heat up- see:
      http://www.coffeekid.com/archived/rancilio/cheatsilvia
      This is a simple matter and one Ive used with the Botticelli, Via Venezia and Quaha.

      Its all about taste not speed (for me at least). Man Im glad I can find a little bit of time in my life for the things that matter!
      Theres also the factors that are rarely discussed- with a simple agricultural single boiler, there is serious longevity and user serviceability (for all but the most fearful).
      Brett

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

        Greg,

        Just a minor correction to your excellent article. The RRP of the Sunbeam is $699, not $599 as you stated in a number of places. Sunbeam put the price up $100 when they introduced the newer 6910 model.

        Of course there is more room for haggling the Sunbeam down compared with the Silvia, with many CSers paying less than $600 for the Sunbeam (therefore has a lower street price).

        Confirmation on this Sunbeam web page:
        http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_id=660&sec_id=79

        Comment


        • #34
          Has anybody ever designed a good Machine?

          I know the header is a bit of a Sh#@%t steerer but I thought I ask this.

          I like the Sunbeam and I like the Silvia. The Sunbeam for its convenience and the Silvia for its simplicity (I still have to taste coffee made with a Silvia).

          I looked up Watlow because pidkits.com use Watlow controllers. I realises that they have a range of heaters also. Just by browsing I thougth that this company provides all the components to make a killer "Snob" machine that is simple and gets the exact temperature in less than 5 minutes.

          How? By trading in metal against water as heat "capacitor". All you need is a secondary "heater" circuit that heats up the group and the coffee basket. So instead of having heavy brass components you have thin brass walls (or maybe stainless steel to cope with the forces involved) and heating pipes around them (and insulation around the lot) to create a thermally stable (and controllable) environment for your perfect shot. This way you would be able to set water temperature and group temperature to the exact spot without any sort of lags, recovery times, ...
          We did this all the time when designing power generation turbines where clearances had to be maintained on the spot no matter how quickly the machine had to be put in operation.

          Commercial machines are designed to be on all the day. A "snob" at home shouldnt have to do this for a great coffee shot. It is a pity that I dont have a lot of time at the moment but I am happy to act as a technical advisor, buddy, sparing partner, ... if somebody wants to design the perfect machine for the home "snob".

          Cheers,
          Edward

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia


            I agree with the concept and have been experimenting with a Sunbeam thermoblock and PID control. Ive found that the group really does have to be actively heated, but the thermoblock has enough heating cpapbility to bring room temp water up to brew temp. To go a bit easier on it Ive used a pre-heating boiler thats under PID control, so I can change the input temp compared to the thermoblock temp.

            Im looking to insert the thermoblock into the brew circuit of a conventional HX machine, using the thermosyphon to heat the group to near brew temperature and use a PID control to give temp settable output from the thermoblock fed directly into the gicleur/3-way. I have all the parts, just not the time at the moment.

            Cheers,

            Mark.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

              Mark - you have impressive dedication to the core of coffee making....

              Cheers

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                What about this setup with a Silvia (single boiler) type machine:
                Create a water loop by fitting a removable "jacket" around the portafilter with a feedback line that connects to the boiler water inlet. A few non return valves, an insulated flexible hose and a T-type connector on the boiler inlet should do the job.

                You would then heat up everything by basically turning on the machine, turning on the pump and letting the water circulate until the boiler light goes out. Then the entire group, portafiter, ... is on the same temperature as the water. Add a PID and you are laughing. The entire heating process shouldnt take more than 5 minutes because all relevant components are now force heated.

                Cheers,
                Edward

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                  Do it Edward, and the coffee world will be your oyster.... There must be a couple of million Silvias out there with a large proportion of owners whod love to retro-fit just the system you have described 8-),

                  Mal.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                    Sounds remarkably similar to an E61! A thermosyphon through the group. But then hey, what did Faema know back in 1961?!? ;D

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                      Originally posted by Mal link=1177174323/30#37 date=1182404829
                      Do it Edward, and the coffee world will be your oyster.... There must be a couple of million Silvias out there with a large proportion of owners whod love to retro-fit just the system you have described 8-),

                      Mal.
                      That means that I have to get a second hand Silvia so I dont have to bother with warranty issues. Anybody got one

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                        Just something to consider. Here is my theory. That a temperature offset on a machine where cold water enters the boiler during brewing is not necessarily a bad thing. On a Silvia. the temperature offset means that there is a small increase in temp during a pull. even though the boiler temp is dropping. so you get the group temp increasing while the boiler temp is decreasing and it all kind of balances out. If the boiler were the same temp as the group. by the end of the shot It may be getting a bit cold.

                        It all depends on how much the boiler temp reduces during a pour of which I have no idea. Im curious those with pids, how low does the boiler get below set point during a pour?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                          Possibly not quite on the subject.
                          Thanks to my new thermocoupler (Jim) under the Brew thermostat clip and thermometer I have been watching the boiler temp when pulling a shot.  It seems as if the water for the group head in taken down a tube from the top of the boiler through the middle of the heater coils.  ( would love to see a proper cross section of the boiler) This does mean the brew water is taken down through the water at the bottom of the boiler.  I notice if the brew heater is on and I begin my pull about 95 degrees the water at the top of the boiler drops a degree or two but then  remains constant until the end of the pull (2x 30ml)  The cold water entering the boiler seems to go down outside the heating coils and is heated on the way down.  The group being brass appears to  help maintain  the brew water temp - though I have not measured it in the group.
                          I think is is a very good system in its simplicity.
                          David

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                            so how much change do you think there would be in the brew water temp during a shot @ the point that it leaves the boiler?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                              May be wrong but:
                              1. Depends on if Silvia is all heated up.  
                              2. More difficult: when the brew heater is on it is because the water at the top is 86degrees or less.  Water below the top will be colder.  When the water at the top is say 95degrees AND the heater is still on the water is drawn down the pipe through colder water and into the group which will also be cooler.
                              3. I suppose there could be a 10 degree difference - but as the water is moving it will be able to retain some heat, so perhaps about as 8 degree difference
                              4 I suppose the brew should start when the temperature at the thermostat is about 100 degrees BUT the heating element must be on.
                              5. all said and done I am very happy with my brew when I start it about 96-98 degrees.

                              There is somewhere in the threads a more scientific analysis of all this.  My ideas are sort of logic!!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

                                With out getting to far off track, for most of us there is a break even point where the;

                                1: Cost
                                2: Technical requirements / perceptions etc, and
                                3: Userbility

                                do not enhance the enjoyment of the actual outcome.

                                A mate of mine is an Audiophile, however the actual difference in what I can detect with my sub $1000 system does not validate the $150K plus for his basic set-up.

                                As has been said many time before, the Quality of the output is in the perception of the end consumer.

                                For those who have the time and the drive to finely tune and modify their equipment, half their luck, and if it worthwhile and repeatable. I am happy to give it ago.

                                However at present I am more than happy with my EM6910 and the ease of use Vs what I watch a mate go through with his Silvia (In particular when making for more that two people at once)...

                                It is the Quality of the raw product (beans) that appears to have the greatest impact on the final product for me and in many ways, is the cheapest item to manage.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X