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Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1177333871/45#47]This Thread[/link]

    Leave a comment:


  • itsme5k
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    OK, not everything, I would still probably still rather the Silvia/Rocky, but not for twice the price of the sunbeam combo.
    Im not trying or asking to be flamed by all the sunbeam loathers or Silvia fans out there, just giving my $0.02.

    John.

    Leave a comment:


  • itsme5k
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    I think everything about this argument has changed now that you can get a new 6910 and an em0480 grinder for under half the price of a new Silvia/Rocky combo.

    Check out my post at http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1182581889 for more info and some inside info on these machines that will save you alot of money.

    Hope I can be of help in this matter, I am on my second 6900 now. (well, a 6910) (got my first when they first came out and surprisingly it never broke, and still makes a decent shot.)

    John.

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    With out getting to far off track, for most of us there is a break even point where the;

    1: Cost
    2: Technical requirements / perceptions etc, and
    3: Userbility

    do not enhance the enjoyment of the actual outcome.

    A mate of mine is an Audiophile, however the actual difference in what I can detect with my sub $1000 system does not validate the $150K plus for his basic set-up.

    As has been said many time before, the Quality of the output is in the perception of the end consumer.

    For those who have the time and the drive to finely tune and modify their equipment, half their luck, and if it worthwhile and repeatable. I am happy to give it ago.

    However at present I am more than happy with my EM6910 and the ease of use Vs what I watch a mate go through with his Silvia (In particular when making for more that two people at once)...

    It is the Quality of the raw product (beans) that appears to have the greatest impact on the final product for me and in many ways, is the cheapest item to manage.

    Leave a comment:


  • dumiya
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    May be wrong but:
    1. Depends on if Silvia is all heated up.  
    2. More difficult: when the brew heater is on it is because the water at the top is 86degrees or less.  Water below the top will be colder.  When the water at the top is say 95degrees AND the heater is still on the water is drawn down the pipe through colder water and into the group which will also be cooler.
    3. I suppose there could be a 10 degree difference - but as the water is moving it will be able to retain some heat, so perhaps about as 8 degree difference
    4 I suppose the brew should start when the temperature at the thermostat is about 100 degrees BUT the heating element must be on.
    5. all said and done I am very happy with my brew when I start it about 96-98 degrees.

    There is somewhere in the threads a more scientific analysis of all this.  My ideas are sort of logic!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet_man67
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    so how much change do you think there would be in the brew water temp during a shot @ the point that it leaves the boiler?

    Leave a comment:


  • dumiya
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Possibly not quite on the subject.
    Thanks to my new thermocoupler (Jim) under the Brew thermostat clip and thermometer I have been watching the boiler temp when pulling a shot.  It seems as if the water for the group head in taken down a tube from the top of the boiler through the middle of the heater coils.  ( would love to see a proper cross section of the boiler) This does mean the brew water is taken down through the water at the bottom of the boiler.  I notice if the brew heater is on and I begin my pull about 95 degrees the water at the top of the boiler drops a degree or two but then  remains constant until the end of the pull (2x 30ml)  The cold water entering the boiler seems to go down outside the heating coils and is heated on the way down.  The group being brass appears to  help maintain  the brew water temp - though I have not measured it in the group.
    I think is is a very good system in its simplicity.
    David

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet_man67
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Just something to consider. Here is my theory. That a temperature offset on a machine where cold water enters the boiler during brewing is not necessarily a bad thing. On a Silvia. the temperature offset means that there is a small increase in temp during a pull. even though the boiler temp is dropping. so you get the group temp increasing while the boiler temp is decreasing and it all kind of balances out. If the boiler were the same temp as the group. by the end of the shot It may be getting a bit cold.

    It all depends on how much the boiler temp reduces during a pour of which I have no idea. Im curious those with pids, how low does the boiler get below set point during a pour?

    Leave a comment:


  • Edward
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Originally posted by Mal link=1177174323/30#37 date=1182404829
    Do it Edward, and the coffee world will be your oyster.... There must be a couple of million Silvias out there with a large proportion of owners whod love to retro-fit just the system you have described 8-),

    Mal.
    That means that I have to get a second hand Silvia so I dont have to bother with warranty issues. Anybody got one

    Leave a comment:


  • gregpullman
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Sounds remarkably similar to an E61! A thermosyphon through the group. But then hey, what did Faema know back in 1961?!? ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Do it Edward, and the coffee world will be your oyster.... There must be a couple of million Silvias out there with a large proportion of owners whod love to retro-fit just the system you have described 8-),

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edward
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    What about this setup with a Silvia (single boiler) type machine:
    Create a water loop by fitting a removable "jacket" around the portafilter with a feedback line that connects to the boiler water inlet. A few non return valves, an insulated flexible hose and a T-type connector on the boiler inlet should do the job.

    You would then heat up everything by basically turning on the machine, turning on the pump and letting the water circulate until the boiler light goes out. Then the entire group, portafiter, ... is on the same temperature as the water. Add a PID and you are laughing. The entire heating process shouldnt take more than 5 minutes because all relevant components are now force heated.

    Cheers,
    Edward

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  • ozscott
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia

    Mark - you have impressive dedication to the core of coffee making....

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparky
    replied
    Re: Detailed comparison - EM6910 vs Silvia


    I agree with the concept and have been experimenting with a Sunbeam thermoblock and PID control. Ive found that the group really does have to be actively heated, but the thermoblock has enough heating cpapbility to bring room temp water up to brew temp. To go a bit easier on it Ive used a pre-heating boiler thats under PID control, so I can change the input temp compared to the thermoblock temp.

    Im looking to insert the thermoblock into the brew circuit of a conventional HX machine, using the thermosyphon to heat the group to near brew temperature and use a PID control to give temp settable output from the thermoblock fed directly into the gicleur/3-way. I have all the parts, just not the time at the moment.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edward
    replied
    Has anybody ever designed a good Machine?

    I know the header is a bit of a Sh#@%t steerer but I thought I ask this.

    I like the Sunbeam and I like the Silvia. The Sunbeam for its convenience and the Silvia for its simplicity (I still have to taste coffee made with a Silvia).

    I looked up Watlow because pidkits.com use Watlow controllers. I realises that they have a range of heaters also. Just by browsing I thougth that this company provides all the components to make a killer "Snob" machine that is simple and gets the exact temperature in less than 5 minutes.

    How? By trading in metal against water as heat "capacitor". All you need is a secondary "heater" circuit that heats up the group and the coffee basket. So instead of having heavy brass components you have thin brass walls (or maybe stainless steel to cope with the forces involved) and heating pipes around them (and insulation around the lot) to create a thermally stable (and controllable) environment for your perfect shot. This way you would be able to set water temperature and group temperature to the exact spot without any sort of lags, recovery times, ...
    We did this all the time when designing power generation turbines where clearances had to be maintained on the spot no matter how quickly the machine had to be put in operation.

    Commercial machines are designed to be on all the day. A "snob" at home shouldnt have to do this for a great coffee shot. It is a pity that I dont have a lot of time at the moment but I am happy to act as a technical advisor, buddy, sparing partner, ... if somebody wants to design the perfect machine for the home "snob".

    Cheers,
    Edward

    Leave a comment:

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