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  • #16
    Re: machine in this price bracket

    Sullo, I suggest you go and do a coffee course before you buy anything else. This is the area that biggest improvements will be found, not by upgrading. How many of us have visited friends with lots of blingy machines and had woeful coffee (come to that, in cafes with machines right up to LMs)?
    In my experience, the jump in taste from a really good single boiler is not that great (case in point being my Botticelli with PID)- you just have more speed and capability. If you want the hot water outlet, they start being something worth while on a one group commercial- like a 2nd hand Boema 1 gp or similar.
    Brett

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    • #17
      Re: machine in this price bracket

      Originally posted by telemaster link=1185067667/15#15 date=1185085065
      Sullo.... (edit).... If you want the hot water outlet, they start being something worth while on a one group commercial- like a 2nd hand Boema 1 gp or similar.
      Brett
      That hot water --read, boiling --- tap certainly is handy. Wouldnt do without it. My wife and daughter use it constantly for soup, tea and chocolate drinks. I use it to blast grounds from the filters and generally underestimate just how hot they are when I pick them up.

      Being superheated water its somewhat violent as it flash boils, but otherwise a very handy feature. 8-)

      -Robusto

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      • #18
        Re: machine in this price bracket

        Originally posted by telemaster link=1185067667/15#15 date=1185085065

        In my experience, the jump in taste from a really good single boiler is not that great (case in point being my Botticelli with PID)- you just have more speed and capability.
        Brett

        Brett,

        When you think about it.... the criteria for great espresso is stable and correct temperature (which is easily met by a PID single boiler machine), stable brew pressure (which most machines with an OPV also meet) and correct technique and quality fresh beans...

        So yes, any quality single boiler machine (given correct technique for that machine) can produce excellent espressos.....

        The more expensive machines.... all the way up to Synessos.... can just produce the same excellent espressos - they do it just SOOOOO much faster..... even more so for milk based drinks of course....

        BUT without the correct technique they can also produce cr@p coffees at a phenomenal rate as well!!!

        However I still think the best espressos Ive ever had were made with a Synesso (and great technique).

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        • #19
          Re: machine in this price bracket

          Originally posted by robusto link=1185067667/15#16 date=1185087746

          Being superheated water its somewhat violent as it flash boils, but otherwise a very handy feature. 8-)

          -Robusto

          Not on a La Cimbali (and several other machines).... The hot water from the boiler is mixed with cold water in a "economiser" - a temperature regulating valve.... which maintains the water temp at about 96C..... I presume so you dont do yourself a dreadful injury (and dont burn the coffee when making a flat black)....

          But it certainly is VERY handy - and gets used all the time here as well.

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          • #20
            Re: machine in this price bracket

            Yep. Like the heat, dont like the flashdance.
            (and the menacing noise)

            I cant say which machine has assisted me(!!!) in making the most memorable espresso.

            But I suspect I fluked it on the very first shot out of my brand new Silvia. New machine, new grinder, fresh beans from a boutique roastery where I bought her.

            Ah, remember it so well. Thick as 90-grade differential oil. Mouthfeel like syrup. Dark as fresh Dextron II automatic transmission fluid...

            Dont think Ive ever managed to replicated that obvious fluke.

            -Robusto

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            • #21
              Re: machine in this price bracket

              David - I live in Sydney, but thankyou for the offer

              Telemaster - although it was a few years ago now, I have done a barista course, was a full day thing. On larger commercial machines I have no problems, its the temp dancing that annoys me, PID is an option but that voids warranty.

              Whats frustrating for me is that this machine in the first 3 weeks was a great machine, then the boiler blew and mocopan replaced it no questions asked????
              Since its return its gotten worse, its been cleaned albeit without ripping open the boiler to see if theres a dead mouse in there, maybe Ive got a bad machine of the bunch, possible pilot error, I dont know. Either way when you pay 770 for a machine you expect to get some good results for more then 3 weeks first time and 2-3 weeks second time. Yes its not an expobar or the like and I really dont worry about bling, as Ive said I dont care what it looks like, like my avatar says "GIVE ME THE COFFEE"

              I just want a unit that wont fail which is why Imthinking that a 2nd commercial single group might be a better option. If it break I can get on the tools and repair (being an atm tech comes in handy sometimes)

              And being vastly de-caffienated at present doesnt help much, and I cant make "she who has great ideas" her lattes.

              Tomorrow Im taking the witch to DiBs and get her looked over, once shes been given the all clear shes up for sale. Wether it be pilot error or machine failure, shes going...

              Appreciate the responses and help

              The frustrated de-caffinated one.
              Sullos

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              • #22
                Re: machine in this price bracket

                Hi Sullo- its interesting that one reader that I had discussions with about a Botticelli had two problems that lead to bitterness on a Botticelli. Two issues were steaming the milk first (not suggesting you are!) so the boiler suffered from a heat mass problem (didnt want to cool down), the other disappeared when the pressure was adjusted via the OPV.
                On the second one, have you noticed youve had to adjust your grind or tamp since the repair?
                Brett

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                • #23
                  Re: machine in this price bracket

                  pour first then milk, and yep had to go finer on rocky

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                  • #24
                    Re: machine in this price bracket

                    Originally posted by Sullo link=1185067667/15#22 date=1185095510
                    pour first then milk, and yep had to go finer on rocky
                    Mmmmm.... sounds like they have played with the OPV and increased the pressure....

                    There are instructions (somewhere on this site) to check the pressure by measuring the water returned to the tank. Might be worth a play - if for no reason other than to satisfy your curiosity.

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                    • #25
                      Re: machine in this price bracket

                      I would but shes in her box next to the front door.


                      FOR SALE (once DiBs check it over) One slightly used (10 week old) Silvia - New Model!!!

                      and yes Im serious.

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                      • #26
                        Re: machine in this price bracket

                        If you feel like unwrapping her..... pressure is tested by putting on a blind filter, and measuring the volume of water returned to the tank in a given period, and comparing result to Uklas volume/pressure graph on its website.

                        Link is:http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1143622054

                        Wouldnt hurt. It has to be unpacked for testing anyway.... :-/

                        Or is the call from the wild of that commercial 2-group too irrisistible.

                        --Robusto

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                        • #27
                          Re: machine in this price bracket

                          thanks for the tip Rob but Ive had enough of the wench!
                          sooner shes sold the sooner I can get a different machine.

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                          • #28
                            Re: machine in this price bracket

                            Sullo,

                            Thats where Robusto and I differ to your view....

                            We wouldnt let the little miss beat us....

                            Id have the lid off, screwdriver in hand to beat her into submission.... Just to get the satisfaction of proving who is the master......

                            No mere machine would be permitted to get the better of me..... no matter how frustrating the attempt - until I had conquered her!

                            Then she would be out the door....... with a smile on my face as I waved her goodbye ;D ;D ;D ;D

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                            • #29
                              Re: machine in this price bracket

                              Java
                              any normal day Id be into it with screwdriver sledge dremel can opener leatherman whatever tool was unfortunately got in my way, but I promised she who has great idea and the place i purchased it from that I wouldnt attack it with a screwdriver.
                              Thumb firmly planted on foehead.
                              Although she did ask me to attack her kenwood steam iron today and was sitting there with me when I was going to comercial machine adds saying can you get that one, is that a good one we could put in the office couldnt we, not once has she said no, apart from returning aformentioned product for evaluation.
                              But if I still have this machine after warranty...............It would be Silvenstein within hours
                              Better I get her looked at within 90 days of warranty.
                              Understand two levels of frustration, one - no coffee, two no modifying

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                              • #30
                                Re: machine in this price bracket

                                R.I.P. Miss Silvia, then. Her brief life was cut short and died all too young.
                                Never did get to be an old grandmother like her sisters.

                                JavaB is right. I am dogged as they come and Ive forgotten how many
                                times Ive said "I dont let things beat me".

                                But I am trying to change, albeit slowly, and put a more appropriate value on my precious time.

                                Sometimes I envy people like you Sullo who know when to stop and let go.

                                (But Id still give Silvia another try, and as JavaB said, wave it out the door, a conquered woman).

                                --Robusto

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