Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Thanks to all you guys who replied.
Ive got my replacement voltage regulator (step-up/step-down) and now Im using it on the second day. Ive left it on overnight just to do a "burn-in" of some sort. What I hate with this servo-type voltage stabilizer is whenever the PID kicks-in, I can see it dropping voltage whilst it is drawing current (approx. 10A) so you can hear it when it tries to dial-in back to the setpoint voltage of 230V. Is this normal?
So far, it seems to hold-up. No burned-wires or fuse. Hopefully, it was just a defective one they gave me the first time.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Regardless fix,
Makes a lot more sense to keep things simple..... 220V supply is normally available and in that case only requires a power-plug change. Also, I never make assumptions where electricity is concerned, not worth the risk,
Mal.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
re switches and wiring
the switches in the rancilio are 16a @ 240v ac and
20a @ at 125v ac
the neon, Boiler / element, cutouts and the solenoid coil for the 3 way would need to be replaced
the wire size is 18 awg 600v 105*c
as they are sold all over the world it would make sense to use the same wire size for all.
the cost of making two harnesses would probably out way the saving in material cost
if you emailed Rancilio im sure they would give you the correct details
graham
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Frequently there is 220V available in the laundry room, for the clothes dryer, as well.Originally posted by Mal link=1194419728/15#19 date=1207119011Javaphile has mentioned a few times that a lot of houses in the States (and Canada?) use a 220V circuit to feed the stove so as to reduce the current draw, wiring size and voltage drop. Might be worth checking out.....
Jim
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Doubt that the wiring would be up to scratch, to the boiler element anyway. 110V AC supply with a similarly rated element would draw more than double the current of a 240V AC element. The Pump would require changing too (at least the coil) and the various indication lights, etc may be so dull as to be almost indistinguishable from the On or Off state.Originally posted by fix link=1194419728/15#18 date=1207071583switchs and wiring might be compatable
The simplest option all round would be to just acquire a suitably rated 110/240V step-up transformer or see if you can get a power point wired from your fusebox as a straight 220V AC outlet. Javaphile has mentioned a few times that a lot of houses in the States (and Canada?) use a 220V circuit to feed the stove so as to reduce the current draw, wiring size and voltage drop. Might be worth checking out.....
Cheers,
Mal.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
might be cheaper to convert the machine to 110v
element / boiler, pump and probably temp cutouts would need replacing
switchs and wiring might be compatable
depends on how long you intend to stay and how much bench space to fit the transformer
graham
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Thanks for all those who replied. Ive gone back to the manufacturer to get some answers.
Is it worth it swapping the 3KW voltage regulator (uses servo) instead of the converter (uses relay)? Ive never had experience with this as Im more familiar with isolation transformers which are quite heavier I think compared to this electronics-based ones.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Thanks fix. I couldnt believe I did not bother to add it up and round it off. ;DOriginally posted by fix link=1194419728/15#15 date=1206956906silvia
48 watt pump + 1100 watt element = 1150 watts total consumtion at 230volt
That means Silvia is drawing just 5A.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
silvia
48 watt pump + 1100 watt element = 1150 watts total consumtion at 230volt
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Hmmm,
Sounds to me more like a loose or bad connection could be causing this problem. Given everything that has been reported and responded to above, the Converters rated output (so long as this is verifiable) is well and truly able to manage the Silvia/Rocky Combo.
Bad connections, for whatever cause, are capable of generating significant temperatures at the site of the connection which can then be conducted along the copper wiring both up and downstream of the locus. My advice would be to contact the manufacturer of the Converter as it will almost certainly entail a warranty claim to have rectified. In my experience with this sort of device, rapid switching at the load has no detrimental effect on any control aspects of the device, or of the device overall.
All the best mate :-?,
Mal.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
To me the converter sounds faulty and more worryingly it has the potential to become a fire hazzard.
The manufacturer need to respond.
But just to clarify to your response,
By "bedding in" I mean the wiring/insulation just needs to get used to the heating. When I used to build valve amps, the Txs would sometimes smell a bit funny for a couple of days and then after some time it will stop smelling.
In your case, I dont think charred black constitutes "bedding in" and appropriate thermal consideration of the insulation should have been made by the designer.
In terms of pure heating/overheating, the pulsing of the PID is less likely to cause overload than the standard Silvia thermostat.
You can see the converter current responding briefly the PID [ie briefly on and off] .......In effect energy is only drawn when required, and due to good thermal stability, not much of a pulse is needed.
If driving a thermostat controlled machine, the current output of the converter would be full-on for [say] 1min and off for [say 3min]
But that 1min "fully on" would present the highest potential for overload.
Perhaps [and I think this is what youre getting at] the converter has some "smarts" that dont respond well to the the fast switching of the PID.
Only the manufacturer could really confirm this.
The AVTR5000 looks good on paper, but remember your coffee equipment is within the rating of your 3000watt unit.
Again, the manufacturer needs to provide comment, if it is a faulty converter [I think it is], you are throwing unnecessary money at the [albeit higher specd] solution.
Finally,
Can your GPOs accomodate the new converter?
If a higher powered GPO is required, would it not be easier/cheaper to convert to 240Vac as Javaphile & Jim [PIDKits] suggested?
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Yes. It is the insulation which I see go to smokes. It is near the wires where the input source is coming from. I have a voltage regulator which can do a step-up and step-down through a switch.Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657If the connection wires are burning [I assume you mean the insulation] it suggests they are experiencing an overload condition and/or that the type of insulation utilised does not like the high temperature caused by high currents.
Are these the wires that connect the 110AC into to the rest of the converter?
I just saw this on the bottom of the Silvia specs so I made an assumption. I was I guess trying to figure out what caused an overload.Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657I dont understand three power ratings you mention under Silvia.
The pump is 48w, the boiler is 1100w, perhaps as you suggest under steaming 1100w becomes 1150w [I doubt this] or perhaps 1100w is for the 240v elements and 1150w is for the 110v elements.
Whatever the case you do not add the [1100 & 1150] together.
My current voltage regulator does not have a delay circuit now. Since I thought my current 3KW might be the cause, Im deciding on upgrading to 5KW if it would help. It has a voltage meter and current meter. I see the current being drawn only when the Silvias pump turns on and when it is heating. Once it reaches the setpoint, the PID pulses the machine, then I can see the current being drawn then back to 0 then on then back to 0. Would this on and off drawing off current cause the overload?Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657I use a time delayed relay/resistor circuit to slowly power up my DIY hifi amplifiers. Switching directly onto the high capacitance in the supply rails will cause very high inrush currents.
I suspect the delay circuit you mention will work in a similar way and for similar reasons.
How long does the Delay Engaged Light stay on for?
[10-30 sec would seem appropriate]
Ive opened up the voltage regulator and I can see it burnt since the plastic near the contacts became charred black. What does bedding-in mean?Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657Maybe the insulation on the connection wires is just "bedding in" [are they actually burnt or just a little brown]?
Yes. I had it running for 6 months before I moved here. I was also able to steam 3 times before the voltage regulator went haywire.Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657Perhaps, the PID steaming circuit is not correctly wired, I think this is unlikely since the function works, but had you used it prior to 110v operation?
My converter is servo type so I can adjust the voltage to go higher by twisting a knob. No special user-settings except the input voltage selection.Originally posted by reubster link=1194419728/0#11 date=1206922657What do the input and output voltage meters on the converter read?
Are there user and or non user settings/switches within the converter that may not be correctly applied?
Most importantly, have you contacted the converters manufacturer?
I already tried but did not get a responses yet.
Thanks by the way for the reply.
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Sounds like you really are decaffin8d,
If the connection wires are burning [I assume you mean the insulation] it suggests they are experiencing an overload condition and/or that the type of insulation utilised does not like the high temperature caused by high currents.
Are these the wires that connect the 110AC into to the rest of the converter?
I dont understand three power ratings you mention under Silvia.
The pump is 48w, the boiler is 1100w, perhaps as you suggest under steaming 1100w becomes 1150w [I doubt this] or perhaps 1100w is for the 240v elements and 1150w is for the 110v elements.
Whatever the case you do not add the [1100 & 1150] together.
I Dont know the rocky spec, but it wouldnt be more than 200-300 watts
The PID power supply will add negligible power to the overall consumption [eg 20watts] and without knowing exactly how your converter works, Id guess its on/off pulsing action to boiler is less likely to cause overload that if the boiler was driven hard on.
Therefore, unless Im missing something the total consumption of your system is within the range of the converter.
Plus, if well designed, its fusing and MCBs should trip the unit before any serious overload/meltdown occurs.
I use a time delayed relay/resistor circuit to slowly power up my DIY hifi amplifiers. Switching directly onto the high capacitance in the supply rails will cause very high inrush currents.
I suspect the delay circuit you mention will work in a similar way and for similar reasons.
How long does the Delay Engaged Light stay on for?
[10-30 sec would seem appropriate]
As a suggestion, It may be best to turn on Silvia & Grinder after the delay engaged light has gone out.
Are you doing this?
Assuming you properly warm up your espresso machine, the whole system would have been running ok for half an hour or so with out any problems.
Switching over to steaming, instead of brewing, should not have increased the power consumption in a significant way.
So whats the problem?
I dunno, some more questions.
Maybe the insulation on the connection wires is just "bedding in" [are they actually burnt or just a little brown]?
Are you waiting for the surge time delay to end before powering up the grinder and espresso machine?
Perhaps, the PID steaming circuit is not correctly wired, I think this is unlikely since the function works, but had you used it prior to 110v operation?
What do the input and output voltage meters on the converter read?
Are there user and or non user settings/switches within the converter that may not be correctly applied?
Most importantly, have you contacted the converters manufacturer?
Keep us posted
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
Sorry for bumping to thread up. Im here now in Canada since January and have got my PIDd Silvia at last.
Ive bought a voltage regulator (servo-type) rated at 3000W since I thought the Silvia is 1100W. I turned it on the first time, then I got leaks. Holy cow! So I stopped it. Opened it up and checked the boiler leak. It seemed during the shipment, the boiler became screws became loose. So I tightened it up and powered it up once more. This time no leaks. Yes!
It was OK for the first day. The next day, I smelt something burning. I thought it was Silvia but then I saw it was the voltage regulator. And I was in the middle of my steaming. I didnt turn it off because what was more important to me was my foam.
Then I turned-it off and checked the transformer. I opened it up and saw the fuse box connection was the one that burnt. I checked the fuse but it did not break. It was just the connection wires which somehow started burning. So I tried to reassess the situation.
What could have caused it?
Is it due to the PID because Ive got the Watlow SD3C with steam function which whilst steaming also turns on the steaming function so temp does not drop down. Or is it due to the pulsing action of the PID since it turns the boiler on and off to reach the setpoint.
Is it a load overload? Granting Ive got the rocky which is 350W and Silvia at 1100W which should be enough. However, I looked at the bottom of the SIlvia again and I see the following:
1150W
1100W
48W
Hmm.. So I know that 48W is the ulka pump. Now could it be that the 1100W is for the boiling and 1150W for steaming? Should I total this up to get the real power consumption? What does the rating for each mean on the bottom of the Silvia. The Rocky has just one.
Total for above is 2298W. This is close to the 80% load efficiency of my 3KW transformer. Could it be the reason? Can you guys help me out put some sense to this? If it is, then Im considering upgrading to 5000W voltage transformer and Im going for this one below:
http://www.110220volts.ca/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATVR-5000&Category_Code=ATVR
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Power Converter/Transformer
* Changes 220/240 Volt (Foreign Electricity) to 110/120 Volt (U.S. Electricity)
* Also can change 110/120 Volt (U.S. Electricity) to 220/240 Volt (Foreign Electricity)
Features:
* Two (2) calibrated voltage meters: input and output voltage
* Lighted power switch
* Input voltage switch
* Heavy-duty circuit breakers rated to 415 volts
* Metal housing with oversized rubber platform feet
* Unit Working” indicator light
* Time Delay switch. Delay feature acts as a type of surge and spike protector by delaying the introduction of the current so it slowly enters the system.
* Delay Engaged” light
* Protection” light
* 110 V. Output” light
* Heavy-duty carrying handles
* Input 80 – 140 and 120 – 240 volts
* Accuracy Output Regulation +/- 4%
* Universal Output Receptacle
* Dimensions: 15” X 8.25” X 11”
* Weight:
* 40.56 pound Maximum Output Power:
* 45.50 amps @ 110 volts / 22.73 amps @ 220 volts Recommended Maximum Load:
* 4000 watts (80% of capacity)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the above description, Im interested in the time-delay feature and it will affect the Silvia. I also hope the 4KW effective capacity rating is sufficient for the continuous operation of dear Silvia + PID.
I need help guys so kindly pour it any comments. I feel at a loss for my Silvia. Its like have a Ferrari without a fuel. ;-(
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Re: Converting a Silvia/Rocky from 220V to 110V
yep, JB, very true...
AnthonyD, we have 4 6V batteries, providing 545AH @ 24V at C100 (which means the batteries are designed to slowly discharge, not like starter batteries).
when we inadvertently (through shore-power overload etc.) switch to inverter-power whilst either Bott or jug or heater (2 bars) are running you can see the "gauge" run down... even with that capacity in the battery-bank we would last less than 3 1/2 hours before the inverter would sound the "over-discharge" alarm.
our batteries are designed to handle 250 discharges of 90%, 1000 discharges of 50%, and 3000 discharges of 15%... which should tell you something about the way a battery feels when it gets sucked dry too quickly!
our battery bank is the very minimal needed to support a 100Amp draw for any length of time... and, FYI, it weighs 320kg ;D ;D, oh and the inverter weighs 45kg!!
L
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