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*UpD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters?

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  • *UpD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters?

    The EM6910s a great machine, but one problem is that the portafilter lugs arent standard. Thats not a problem unless you want to buy an aftermarket portafilter, such as a bottomless one.

    So whats Im considering is a bulk purchase of some EM6910 portafilters, machining the bottoms out of them and selling them to interested CSers. Unfortunately Sunbeam arent particularly helpful with bulk pricing on these sorts of thing and have offered only minimal discount on the numbers I estimated may be interested, so by the time Ive bought the things and done all the machining I reckon the final price is going to be in the order of $120 (+ say $10 freight if required). Firm prices would be advised based on numbers if it goes ahead.

    [edit]
    Our good friend Graham at Euro Coffee and Appliances has kindly offered me a better price on the portafilters than Sunbeam offered which I can pass on to you, and importantly its a flat rate rather than being linked to a minimum number of orders. So in light of that the revised price for these (for CSers only) will be $105 plus postage . You now have the option to modify your vote within seven days of its submission so please update your vote if this information changes things for you.
    [/edit]

    Now bear in mind the price of a bottomless portafilter from Coffeeparts thatll fit most standard groups is only $86.90 (+post) so Im not suggesting this is the deal of the year by any means; but for 6910 owners it may be the only solution other than permanently modifying your existing one. One thing I do know that a bottomless portafilter makes it a lot easier to diagnose shot preparation deficiencies and certainly gives a different taste to espresso.

    Interested?
    Greg

    (Obviously if youre NOT a 6910 owner please dont vote Yes or No :)

  • #2
    Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

    if youll post to NZ, sure (provided I can group together the funds)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

      Ive got a bottomless on my 6910 and I love it. Its the only portafilter that I use on my machine now. Plus it looks awesome when it pours!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

        Nice idea Greg!

        Im sure there are plenty of EM6910 users that would love this as a service... maybe you could package a tamp to fit the basket as an additional option too!

        8-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

          Getting off Sunbeam subject, but where would I purchase one for a Silvia and how much???

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

            Originally posted by greenman link=1208326453/0#4 date=1208339946
            Getting off Sunbeam subject, but where would I purchase one for a Silvia and how much???
            <<<<<<<<< DiBartoli can assist....

            Now back to Gregs thread...Nice idea Greg! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

            As Andy suggested, Im sure there will be a few CSers looking for a matched tamper to their new nudie P/F

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

              Greenman,

              Check out coffeeparts.... they sell em and its about the best price you will get. $79 plus tax and postage.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

                One thing I do know that a bottomless portafilter makes it a lot easier to diagnose shot preparation deficiencies and certainly gives a different taste to espresso.  

                Hi Greg
                Thats interesting, would you class the taste as better ? in what way ?
                Yes Id be interested, and I like the tamper idea as well. Im in NZ though and would need to check local prices.
                Cheers Andrew


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

                  Originally posted by Andy Freeman link=1208326453/0#3 date=1208339810
                  Nice idea Greg!

                  Im sure there are plenty of EM6910 users that would love this as a service... maybe you could package a tamp to fit the basket as an additional option too!

                  8-)
                  Great idea Andy. Guys if you want a tamper at the same time weve got our pencil sharpener ready


                  Originally posted by Techo link=1208326453/0#8 date=1208340200
                  One thing I do know that a bottomless portafilter makes it a lot easier to diagnose shot preparation deficiencies and certainly gives a different taste to espresso.
                  Hi Greg
                  Thats interesting, would you class the taste as better ? in what way ?
                  Yes Id be interested, and I like the tamper idea as well. Im in NZ though and would need to check local prices.
                  Cheers Andrew
                  The taste factor is a curious one; somehow it tends to taste more alive and full-bodied to my palate than when its come through a portafilter. But Im not a big espresso drinker so Im by no means the most qualified to comment on this. You might like to do a Google search on naked portafilter taste or something like that as theres heaps out there on this exact question. If youre like I was youll probably wonder why it would make any difference whether the espresso comes out of the basket and straight into the cup or whether it runs over a hot piece of brass on the way. Like seriously, why should it matter (said the skeptic within me)? Somehow, it does. One quiet early afternoon at Epic (when Corey had his afternoon off and we could play around ) I dug out the bottomless portafilter and started pulling some shots. Vanessa Moore, Megan Aguero, Jeremy Hulsdunk and I were all really impressed by the richness of the flavour (the first time Id ever used one personally). We also had one customer who always came through for a double ristretto so we gave one to this guy. Now Epics double ristrettos are rich and full at the worst of times, but this guy was really impressed and asked for one made that way the next time he came in!

                  Luca I think suggested it may be to do with the fact you get more air in the shot via the bottomless portafilter, so 20ml of espresso in the cup may actually contain only say 18ml of espresso and a bit more air so youre drinking a shot which is concurrently richer and lighter for the same apparent volume. Others suggest theres no interference from any temperature difference in the portafilter.

                  But whatever the reason, my own experience and that of others who have used one seem to all agree that theres definitely a positive and detectable difference in taste. Ive since made one for myself and use that 80% of the time, by choice. And thats quite apart from being a great tool to seeing what youre doing right and wrong in your preparation.

                  Greg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

                    Just to add to what Greg said re taste.....

                    If you read Javaphiles comments re superautomatics (specifically the La Cimbali testing he did) he commented that the espresso taste suffered badly from being forced through a tube and then "hitting" the dispenser and into the cup..... even though it was near perfect at the point of extraction....

                    So reading between the lines.....

                    Anything which gets in the way between the point of extraction (the bottom of the basket) and the destination (the cup) will have some adverse effect on the taste..... and that must include the base of the PF and the passage through the spouts etc..... the crema - and hence taste and especially mouthfeel - will be altered.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Any interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilters

                      Great idea Greg! Id definitely be interested - if I didnt already have one...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: *UPD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilt

                        I find that using the naked has a positive effect on taste :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: *UpD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilt

                          Originally posted by Greg Pullman link=1208326453/0#0 date=1208326453
                          [edit]
                          Our good friend Graham at Euro Coffee and Appliances has kindly offered me a better price on the portafilters than Sunbeam offered which I can pass on to you, and importantly its a flat rate rather than being linked to a minimum number of orders. So in light of that the revised price for these (for CSers only) will be $105 plus postage  . You now have the option to modify your vote within seven days of its submission so please update your vote if this information changes things for you.
                          [/edit]
                          Thats terrific Greg! I changed my vote from Yes,but not at that price,..to a Yes.

                          Aside from the benefits of using a bottomless portafilter already discussed above, I can think of two more. It has always bothered me about the spouts harbouring nasties and getting them completely clean after every session, so a bottomless portafilter will resolve that issue. Also getting the basket out of portafilter has always been annoying and difficult for me,..and I will assume getting a basket out of the bottomless portafilter will take care of that problem too. Noice!!!

                          I will just use the old portafilter with double spout only when making singles for guests, and the bottomless for my everyday use. Cant wait!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: *UpD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilt

                            Great Remy, its looking promising so far, hopefully we get a few other positive responses too.

                            Its worth having a look at this YouTube clip of a bottomless 6910 extraction, although the following would apply similarly to any machine. This is a slow motion clip which is helpful in watching the details. Watch for example how the first globule that pours is from the left side, and that this same point is where blonding starts around the 1:03 mark, which could perhaps indicate underdosing or undertamping on that side. Around the 38 second mark the other three streams are jumping up and down like yoyos but the left ones still going strong. Also note how much liquid escapes around the edges of the basket compared to in the middle - this would indicate either uneven water distribution, uneven particle distribution (poor dosing technique) or uneven tamp pressure distribution (undersized tamper).

                            These are all situations which would present as simply premature blonding in a normal portafilter so troubleshooting the real cause would be difficult; yet the deficiencies become immediately obvious with a bottomless portafilter.

                            Greg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: *UpD8* Interest in bottomless EM6910 portafilt

                              Hi Greg, thanks for the update. The general opinion on the net seems to be "no difference". But it is mouth watering to watch, which has got to change the taste and as they say a great way to improve your tamp technique so yeah Im in.
                              Cheers

                              Comment

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