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Pre-infusion & the Silvia

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  • #16
    Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

    An easy (and cheap) way to test pre-infusion would be to wire a 240V rated normally closed press button switch in series with the pump...... (normal caveats apply - 240V can kill - so only attempt this if you know what you are doing!!)

    Press the brew switch - after say 2 seconds press and hold the newly installed switch - the 3 way solenoid will remain operated but the pump will stop - this will provide pre-infusion - after say 5 seconds release the button, the pump will restart and extraction will continue.

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    • #17
      Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

      Hmmm,

      Dont know if Id be happy doing this though JB.... Unless you fit a decent check valve into the circuit youd run the risk of drawing coffee particles, and dissolved solids back into the Pump. A bit risky otherwise :-/,

      Mal.

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      • #18
        Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

        Originally posted by Mal link=1210326237/15#16 date=1210745800
        Hmmm,

        Dont know if Id be happy doing this though JB.... Unless you fit a decent check valve into the circuit youd run the risk of drawing coffee particles, and dissolved solids back into the Pump. A bit risky otherwise :-/,

        Mal.
        Ahhh.... good point Mal.... yep check valve would be required if any level of pressure built up in the PF for sure!

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        • #19
          Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

          Its a good idea but, rather than pre-infusion, isnt it more like pre-slam, followed by slam? What about some way of just installing a gicleur, like in LMs (if Ive got that right)?

          matt

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          • #20
            Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

            Matt,

            Ive got them on the La Cimbali as well....

            But there is a bit more involved.....

            Mains pressure is at 3.5 Bar (at rest).....

            Press start...... the 3 way opens.... 3.5 bar is applied to the puck (via the 0.8mm restriction)..... shortly thereafter the rotary pump starts..... and pressure is ramped up from 3.5 to 9 Bar during the pre-infusion phase (again via the 0.8mm restriction).....

            Bit hard to do that with the Silvia..... but I guess it could go from zero to 9 Bars.... :-/ but would it be as gentle?

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            • #21
              Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

              if you want to manually preinfuse, turn of coffee switch after 2-3 sec, turn backon after another 2-3 sec
              graham
              Only problem with this method though Graham, is that the 3-Way Valve will instantaneously bleed off any water under pressure along with coffee extraction.
              mal
              yes this is true.

              some of the commercial machines do just this, but through the electronic controller, controlling group and pump operation

              graham

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              • #22
                Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                Originally posted by fix link=1210326237/15#20 date=1210752514
                some of the commercial machines do just this, but through the electronic controller, controlling group and pump operation

                graham
                Yep, understand this re: commercial machines but the Silvia has only basic levels of control and would need to be significantly modified to achieve the same ends, and I dont know that it would be worth it in the end. Silvia already pulls a very fine espresso so long as the user does everything properly, as per many other makes of machine for that matter.

                I personally believe that time and money spent doing a Basic or Advanced Home Barista Course would be resources much better expended than modifying Miss Silvia, with the exception perhaps of one of Jims PID Kits.... One of these just gives Miss Silvia "Wings", in the vernacular of a recent alternative caffeine beverage promotion ,

                Mal.

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                • #23
                  Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                  i just shpritzed my puck with (cold) water tonight before locking in my pf.
                  i have been getting medicore results (at best) from my faema, and i have to say that i definitely noticed a significant improvement in the pour. more crema, more tiger striping, later blonding.

                  taste in the cup? not great, and i would need to keep playing with this some more, but as mal suggests, i think i would be better off tweaking my technique than messing around shpritzing stuff here and there.

                  i just had a flash of this progressing to the point where Ill be doing a bit of an irish effort, shpritzing the air above the pf and letting the teeny water particles fall ever so gently into the puck to avoid any undue rudeness from the shpritz comprimising the integrity of the puck.............

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                  • #24
                    Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                    This morning I left my Silvia on after morning coffee because we were having visitors around an hour or so later. The result for the second round was significantly better than after a shorter warm-up.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                      Yep youll definitely get better results from a warm Silvia than a cold one, no disputing that.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                        Originally posted by Mal link=1210326237/0#6 date=1210400855
                        Originally posted by fix link=1210326237/0#5 date=1210368937
                        if you want to manually preinfuse, turn of coffee switch after 2-3 sec, turn backon after another 2-3 sec
                        graham
                        Only problem with this method though Graham, is that the 3-Way Valve will instantaneously bleed off any water under pressure along with coffee extraction. I think its a lot better to just use the Silvia as its designed, you wont lose any coffee that way......

                        Mal.
                        Not only that but wouldnt turning the switch on without the valve being open just let the water hit the grind at full pressure? Someone mentoned this as being a pre-slam. ;-)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                          Originally posted by JavaB link=1210326237/15#19 date=1210749251
                          Matt,

                          Ive got them on the La Cimbali as well....

                          But there is a bit more involved.....

                          Mains pressure is at 3.5 Bar (at rest).....

                          Press start...... the 3 way opens.... 3.5 bar is applied to the puck (via the 0.8mm restriction)..... shortly thereafter the rotary pump starts..... and pressure is ramped up from 3.5 to 9 Bar during the pre-infusion phase (again via the 0.8mm restriction).....

                          Bit hard to do that with the Silvia..... but I guess it could go from zero to 9 Bars.... :-/ but would it be as gentle?
                          No, I guess not JavaB. With a vibe pump, you cant really be gentle - its either on or off, and restricting it is probably bad for the pump. Anyway, I doubt that pre-infusion is going to be the main factor in making a good espresso on the Silvia. She seems to encourage people to mod (maybe something about the build?) but she is really a fine gal as she is. I really agree with Mal that the PID is probably the only mod that will really make a difference - except modding your technique. And even then, I suspect its more for convenience and consistency than anything else.

                          matt

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                          • #28
                            Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                            With a vibe pump, you cant really be gentle - its either on or off
                            According to everything I have read about vibe vs rotary the vibe pump has a more gradual ramp up than the rotary. Some machines rely on the flow restriction of the gicleur combined with the vibes ramp up characteristics, for a softer infusion.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                              Originally posted by vicroamer link=1210326237/15#27 date=1210974808
                              With a vibe pump, you cant really be gentle - its either on or off
                              According to everything I have read about vibe vs rotary the vibe pump has a more gradual ramp up than the rotary. Some machines rely on the flow restriction of the gicleur combined with the vibes ramp up characteristics, for a softer  infusion.
                              Very interesting vicroamer. So the restrictor isnt bad for the pump? I guess theyre pretty resilient. In that case, perhaps it would be possible on any vibe machine, if you could get a gicleur into the line. That is, if you still think its worth it...

                              matt

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Pre-infusion & the Silvia

                                From a reply from Dan Kehn over on HB re a HX machine.
                                In the guide, I refer to the preinfusion of your model (and the semi-auto like mine) as progressive preinfusion because it relies on the gicleur (orifice) and vibe pump for slower pressure ramp up as compared to a "true" E61:
                                He was not referring to the Silvia but to a HX machine but I believe it is relevant re preinfusion, as to applying it to Silvia I dont know but Mark Prince did comment Silvias pour is quicker because it lacks a flow restrictor.

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