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  • #16
    Re: Silvia uneven pour

    Just installed a replacement spout on my Silvia this morning and got a much more even pour between my two cups. Even after reading all the advice about size the new spout was still much larger than I was expecting. No problem for me though, as I use low wide cappuccino cups.

    I did install a fibre washer between the spout and the portafilter. This allowed me to screw the spout in tight and still have it facing the front when the portafilter is locked in.


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    • #17
      Re: Silvia uneven pour

      Originally posted by LastMile link=1211074648/15#15 date=1212449936
      I did install a fibre washer between the spout and the portafilter. This allowed me to screw the spout in tight and still have it facing the front when the portafilter is locked in.
      I just picked up one of these spouts for myself (mostly because they look sexy ). Is it critical to use the washer, or will the spouts still line up properly without it?

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      • #18
        Re: Silvia uneven pour

        Without the washer when screwed in tight mine was running NW-SE rather than E-W when the portafilter was locked in.

        I experimented with a few different rubber and fibre washers until I got the right angle. Without the washer the spout was a bit loose.

        I suppose you could use some mild threadlock instead of a washer.

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        • #19
          Re: Silvia uneven pour

          High Temp O-Rings, of the type used in Automatic Transmissions for example, do a pretty good job too. If you have access to a Repco store or similar, theyre very cheap to buy......

          Mal.

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          • #20
            Re: Silvia uneven pour

            Hi everyone - just thought I would add my experience to this common problem. I have posted on this subject before and bought a Pullman tamper first - so Im sure I am tamping evenly. No help. Then tried a new spout from Coffee Parts - had the same problems with it not sitting East -West when locked in - my hubby attended to this with plumbers tape and seems to have sorted that out. But still the uneven pours. hmmm. Ive been through the level bench stuff and interestingly when you just run water through the pour seems even.
            Its a great machine but am finding this problem irritating.
            I am thinking that I will see if I can get adjustable legs for the Silvia - can anyone tell me if these are readilly available through coffeeparts??

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            • #21
              Re: Silvia uneven pour

              Im pretty sure Ive fixed mine. Last night while doing a major clean of the machine I noticed the portafilter spout had loads of gunk in it - so i removed to help clean it. When I put it back on I tightened it just a little bit more then it was before. It appears to be pouring more evenly, I will get some shot glasses to check.

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              • #22
                Re: Silvia uneven pour

                Hi,
                Cant see any new posts on this topic, perhaps folks have decided there is little more to be said.
                My Silvia sends more coffee to the RHS, one suggestion is the spouts could be out of level, a spirit level showed them to be spot on, as near as one could tell. Putting a credit card under the RHS feet causes the RHS to be higher and the pour to even up, but then the LHS crema colour is then much darker.
                Another comment on the topic suggests filing the outlet, I have a suitable set of files and can see that a little adjustment could even the flow.
                I wonder if anyone has done this and what was the effect? Once the pour is even is the colour still consistent on both sides?

                Interesting to think that a credit card is perhaps 1 mm thick (feet perhaps 150 mm apart) and that translated to the difference in the divider level (perhaps 15 mm apart) would be only 0.1 mm difference.

                Previously I had a cheap Sunbeam machine which also produced uneven pour, as does everyones machine that I have spoken to. The Sunbeam was interesting in that it had a complicated plastic divider, more sophisticated than the Silvia. The coffee dropped into a well and then flowed out of two slots front and back which then divide through semi-circular channels each way to the left and right spouts.
                When the pour was uneven I removed the plastic divider insert and rotated it 180 degrees. That would even it out for a while but it always seemed to revert to favouring the RHS.

                There seems to be two probable reasons, one is that the surface tension is greater so the pour does not start at the same time on each side and the second that the flow rate is different.
                It seems likely that both are involved so raising one side evens the pour, but the difference in surface tension allows the richer crema to flow first to one side. However, this does not seem consistent with the observation that the LHS crema is darker when you would expect the RHS to flow first.

                The other thing I noticed is that putting just water through the group handle (different surface tension) results in a more even distribution of liquid, suggesting that surface tension is a significant factor.
                Cleaning the divider with something like a pipe cleaner may help as build up of coffee stain could alter the surface tension.
                What do people think?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Silvia uneven pour

                  Originally posted by 5843425057445B5344360 link=1211074648/21#21 date=1299545805
                  The other thing I noticed is that putting just water through the group handle (different surface tension) results in a more even distribution of liquid, suggesting that surface tension is a significant factor.
                  Cleaning the divider with something like a pipe cleaner may help as build up of coffee stain could alter the surface tension.
                  What do people think?
                  Get ya self a Nakid :-)

                  I would also suggest that the evenness of your dosing and Tamp will have an impact and a Nakid will soon show if this is the case.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Silvia uneven pour

                    Hey nutfarmer - I have a Silvia and (was) suffering from really minimal flow from the left, and most from the right.

                    Being an engineer - I thought levelness. Nope. Eventually I checked my tamping - lo and behold I was OK left to right but 180degrees from the PF handle, the tamp was high! Fixed that, and the pour is perfectly - and I do mean perfectly even.

                    I use a Pullman tamper, and have always glanced at the level marks, but never fore/aft just side to side. Lesson learned!

                    I still cant quite get the fluid flow model into my head that causes this, but the cure was instantaneous!

                    Hope this helps
                    /Kevin

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Silvia uneven pour

                      Hey nutfarmer -

                      Being an engineer - I thought levelness.  Nope.  Eventually I checked my tamping - lo and behold I was OK left to right but 180degrees from the PF handle, the tamp was high!  Fixed that, and the pour is perfectly - and I do mean perfectly even.


                      *****
                      Thanks for the reply,
                      I have been doing some more checks on the levels. I found that the bench was a bit off level, but higher on the right which would only help even the flow.
                      I am amazed at how little change is needed to alter the evenness only about 0.2 mm at the divider.

                      I looked at the tamp and find it does make a difference but am rather perplexed as to why.
                      All the coffee from the filter drains down into the hole in the bottom then it flows/drips into a well in the divider where it divides, so there should be no difference where it came from above.
                      Looking closely at the well it seems to be about 2 mm deep at the middle and sloping up to the edges where there is a small step of about 0.2 mm in either side and then a flat run to the curving spouts on each side.
                      I can imagine from that design that a change of 0.2 mm could make a difference as it matches the small step at each side.
                      Perhaps adjustable feet would be a good idea. May try to get some of those stick on protectors that go under the feet and protect the bench top if I can find some the right thickness.



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                      • #26
                        Re: Silvia uneven pour

                        Originally posted by 544F4E5C5B48575F483A0 link=1211074648/24#24 date=1306122789
                        I looked at the tamp and find it does make a difference but am rather perplexed as to why.
                        All the coffee from the filter drains down into the hole in the bottom then it flows/drips into a well in the divider where it divides, so there should be no difference where it came from above.
                        Looking closely at the well it seems to be about 2 mm deep at the middle and sloping up to the edges where there is a small step of about 0.2 mm in either side and then a flat run to the curving spouts on each side.
                        I can imagine from that design that a change of 0.2 mm could make a difference as it matches the small step at each side.
                        Perhaps adjustable feet would be a good idea. May try to get some of those stick on protectors that go under the feet and protect the bench top if I can find some the right thickness.
                        Indeed. I cant understand how the heck this works - it is just down the one hole, then the flow divides! Things that are intuitively obvious, it seems, sometimes arent. Ive kind of accepted it, but Im not real happy - I want to know how.

                        /Kevin

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Silvia uneven pour

                          Originally posted by 0504034E0 link=1211074648/25#25 date=1306155832
                          I cant understand how the heck this works - it is just down the one hole, then the flow divides!
                          If the flow comes down one side of the bottom of the group handle, then it will go down one side of the hole and, for want of a better word, "stick" to the side of that hole and go out the spout on that side.

                          The surface tension of the espresso, which is quite high, would enhance this behaviour.

                          Think of it like pouring water out of a glass, often the water "sticks" to the side of th eglass and runs down it, rather than pouring gracefully from the lip and straight down.

                          makes sense in my head

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                          • #28
                            Re: Silvia uneven pour

                            If the flow comes down one side of the bottom of the group handle, then it will go down one side of the hole and, for want of a better word, "stick" to the side of that hole and go out the spout on that side.



                            Yes that is the obvious answer, but I have a lot of difficulty accepting it.

                            Rancilio would have taken surface tension into account in the design.

                            When you examine the hole at the bottom of the filter funnel you see it is a cylinder and separated from, and sitting inside, the divider cup. The bottom ring of this cylinder sits below the top edge of the divider cup.
                            You can get a twist tie form it into a hook and feel that the there is a clear space between the cylinder and the cup of the divider.
                            So the coffee would have to move around the bottom of the cylinder, then move back up the outside edge of the cylinder, then over the top and back down to the outlet hole.

                            Clearly, even if it could do this (magic bullet) trick it would have already mixed with any coffee flowing down the other side of the filter funnel.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Silvia uneven pour

                              I had a similar problem (nemox machine) and when I made my PF naked, I could easily see my extraction being way lob sided. I paid more attention to even grind distribution and tamping and now the extraction is much improved.

                              I have found the naked PF very handy for diagnosing pours, as you can easily see channeling, uneven extraction (side to side or outside/inside), what is causing early blonding etc

                              Cheers

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Silvia uneven pour

                                Originally posted by 5340465F535C320 link=1211074648/28#28 date=1306230914
                                I had a similar problem (nemox machine) and when I made my PF naked, I could easily see my extraction being way lob sided.  I paid more attention to even grind distribution and tamping and now the extraction is much improved.

                                I have found the naked PF very handy for diagnosing pours, as you can easily see channeling, uneven extraction (side to side or outside/inside), what is causing early blonding etc

                                Cheers
                                Okay I guess I just have to accept that is what happens and take a close look at the tamp.

                                Cheers

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