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Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

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  • Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

    Hi,

    Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction to find out how to correctly temp surf with my silvia....

    I have seen one video on youtube...it was just a bit unclear tho.

    He first pushed the brew button a few times to make the boiler heating light come on. But then, by the time he poured his shot, the light had turned off again? .,..I am probably mistaken :-/, but I thought that to temp surf, we want the light to be on while the shot is being poured...

    Thanks for your help..
    Ed

  • #2
    Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

    check this site out it has good information that should help you--

    www.coffeekid.com/archived/rancilio/cheatsilvia

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

      but I thought that to temp surf, we want the light to be on while the shot is being poured.
      Start the countdown when the light goes off, the falling temperature is easier to judge.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

        Hi Shimmy

        You can surf down the temp cooling curve for a fixed time of your choosing after the light goes off or surf up the curve for a time after the light goes on.

        And also this site by Randy Glass is good.
        http://www.espressomyespresso.com/
        Chapter 58, Time Surfing vs. Temp Surfing

        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

          Although it is in Fahrenheit units, this graph should give you a good idea of what is going on behind the scenes when you are surfing.  On this particular machine (there will be some variation), the light goes off when the boiler temperature is at 228F (109C).  After that, the temperature continues to increase for around 45 seconds, reaching 250F (121C) before slowly starting to cool.

          Also note that the group temperature is on a cycle too, but lags the boiler temperature by 7 or 8 minutes.

          While testing this machine, I got the best shot temperatures at 45 seconds or more after "light off."  Shots pulled too much earlier than this ran a little cool on my test machine.


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

            Originally posted by PIDKits link=1221036094/0#4 date=1221052883
            Also note that the group temperature is on a cycle too, but lags the boiler temperature by 7 or 8 minutes.
            Oops, should have said that the group temp peak lags by 3 or 4 minutes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

              Hi Ed,

              Im guessing you were looking at my dodgy camera work on youTube. Anyway, the blog entry that goes along with the video is here:

              http://coffeemachineman.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/rancilio-silvia-pid-temperature-surfing/

              Let me know if its still not clear.

              As others have already pointed out, there isnt one method of temperature surfing, its just a means to an end and if you know what youre after (a specific group head temp for example) and you have some way of estimating that (say as a function of the element light turning on or off etc) then you can come up with a technique that suits you.

              Remember that all machines will vary, so let taste be your guide.

              charlie

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              • #8
                Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                Great thanks a lot guys...

                PID Kits: that sounds like a good starting point....If i can wait 45 secs till boiler light off then run the shot. At least it gives me something to go by. does this apply to the newer rancilios? I think mine has the 110 thermostat?

                JetBlack Espresso: Far out! that was your video? Ive watched that about 10 times...got some great tips.....haha Im sure its perfectly clear to everyone else.....Im just very new to this machine and to temp surfing :P
                Ill read that blog too

                thanks again,
                Ed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                  Good luck with the surfing Shimmy, I just spent a fruitful arvo installing my PID and a new group seal, both projects went off without a hitch followed by a Sulawisi Toraja ristretto to test that it all worked!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                    Originally posted by greenman link=1221036094/0#8 date=1221126107
                    both projects went off without a hitch followed by a Sulawisi Toraja ristretto to test that it all worked!!
                    And...... What are your impressions "gm"? ;D

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                      Originally posted by Shimmy link=1221036094/0#7 date=1221124107
                      PID Kits: that sounds like a good starting point....If i can wait 45 secs till boiler light off then run the shot. At least it gives me something to go by. does this apply to the newer rancilios? I think mine has the 110 thermostat?
                      The graph was made using a new "V2" Silvia with a 100C thermostat. Over here, the 100C thermostat has been the standard for several years.

                      If your machine actually has a 110C thermostat, then waiting 45 seconds might give shots that are a little on the hot side. Are you sure it is 110C?

                      Jim

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                      • #12
                        Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                        hmmmm...no I had better check that..

                        quick question tho,

                        I need to look into PIDs more....(Im sure ill eventually be installing one) Do they actually control the tempature .....or just show you what the exact temp is doing? ....

                        and also, how much would I be up for ? :P

                        Thanks alot
                        Ed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                          Hi Shimmy

                          The PID controls the temp - and very very well at that. Look up PID on Wikipedia and posts here and also lots of info on Jims PID Kits site.
                          As for cost - see the sponsor on the left "PID Kits".

                          When I had a Silvia I installed one of Jims PID kits onto it. Its an excellent kit and it saved me much trouble sourcing all the parts locally. One can get PID units from electronic suppliers here but they will cost just as much as getting one from the US and it wont come with all the wires and connectors cut to size and ready to go. Jims kit also comes with a superb manual and how to assemble it into the Silvia.

                          Its not cheap but if you are going to keep your Silvia for a few years it is well worth it. You wont have to temp surf at all.

                          Mike

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                            If you are considering PID, Jims kits are fantastic. The workmanship is of very high quality and the instructions make it easy for anyone comfortable with basic hand tools to install.

                            As I have said before:
                            -Just using Silvia is like standing on the tracks, blindfold in place, waiting for the train.

                            -Time surfing (light on, wait 45 seconds, pull shot) is like standing on the tracks, running a stopwatch, and stepping off the tracks to see if the train is there, and hoping you got the timing correct.

                            -Temp surfing with based on the display from a digital thermometer is like trying to jump on a
                            train as it ran through the station at speed.

                            -PID is a leisurely boarding onto a stopped train with champagne served at the door by a very gracious porter..

                            On the other hand, my stock VBM Domobar Super with Erics thermometer adapter beats the puss out of my PIDd Silvia, and well it should for around three times the cost.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Miss Silvia...Temp surfing

                              Hi Ed,

                              We have a Silvia with PID attached for demo - if you live in the Sydney area you can drop in and have a look. It will be in the showroom as of tomorrow morning at around 10am (I have been playing with it at home :-))

                              Regards
                              Deb

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