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VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

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  • #16
    Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

    A small "tea-cosy" does a great job too....

    Mal.

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    • #17
      Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

      oh i was thinking mine was a little cool so i adjusted the thermostat from say the 10 oclock position to the 11 oclock position so this probably explains why mine steams and spits a little and since i have no real means of checking the temp at the moment its all guess work so looking back i should of just left it alone

      i would buy one of Erics digi thermometers but with the little aussie battler heading south again its now becoming an expensive exercise to buy anything from the US

      Darren

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      • #18
        Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

        Originally posted by PIDKits link=1223335640/0#14 date=1223507243
        A flush through the group will probably result in only a temporary departure from the "natural" warm up curve.  Or, at best, a small improvement in the waiting time.

        .. draping a dry cloth over an E-61 group makes a dramatic reduction in the time required to reach "flat line" temperature.  

        Alternatively, turning on the steam switch for, say, 5 minutes should make a pretty signficant difference, too, especially if a flush done when the boiler is at steaming temps. Jim
        Thanks Jim (and Mal)

        I took your suggestion this morning and draped my coffee cloth over the grouphead and it was definitely warmer than without it after 20 mins.
        I discovered an additional benefit: I placed my coffee cups on the warming tray face down and draped the cloth over these as well. The cups were actually quite warm rather than the usual slightly warm. Definitely a tip I will continue from now on (and will be added to my VBM Levetta user guide)

        Steve

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        • #19
          Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

          Originally posted by Banjo link=1223335640/0#16 date=1223547175
          oh i was thinking mine was a little cool so i adjusted the thermostat from say the 10 oclock position to the 11 oclock position so this probably explains why mine steams and spits a little and since i have no real means of checking the temp at the moment its all guess work so looking back i should of just left it alone  

          i would buy one of Erics digi thermometers but with the little aussie battler heading south again its now becoming an expensive exercise to buy anything from the US  

          Darren
          What prompted you to change it in the first place Darren?
          As Ive complained before, Ive been getting failry poor shots and blaming my dosing technique. I have my Mazzer Mini about 4 notches in to the fine zone whereas it was about 3 notches into coarse on my old Gaggia Baby.

          Yesterday I checked my brew temp adjustment screw and it was pointing just above 9 oclock. I adjustedit to about 1o oclock with instant results - darker and more abundant crema. I will have to re-dial as the puck is a bit wet with a 40 second pour. I dont get the spitting but there is a small amount of steam after doing my pre-shot flush.

          I think the digithermometer would be a great mod if they were available in Oz and can give degrees celsius readout but it sounds like a temp probe and meter might be much cheaper

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          • #20
            Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

            Erics thermometer now comes in Celsius.

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            • #21
              Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

              Originally posted by flynnaus link=1223335640/0#18 date=1223605177
              ..... but it sounds like a temp probe and meter might be much cheaper
              Thats what I did with mine, after I thought it was running too cool - and it was!

              Cheers

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              • #22
                Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                Originally posted by PhilMac link=1223335640/20#20 date=1223726977

                Thats what I did with mine, after I thought it was running too cool - and it was!

                Cheers
                So Philmac how cool was cool and what did you set it to?

                I turned mine up a tad and the brew temp is better ie hotter and better tasting. Some shots were coming out a little sour/overly aqcidic and not so any more and this is with the same bean. Might get the thermoprobe out today and post the results...

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                • #23
                  Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                  Heres an idea to consider.

                  Ive done testing on a couple different single boiler machines with E-61 groups.  On both machines, a group temperature of between 91C and 92C gave the best brew temps.  Each of these machines, BTW, is very similar to the Levetta.

                  This (91-92) is a very small range, and I think it would be a very reliable way to dial in the thermostat on the Levetta.

                  Earlier in this thread I suggested the use of one of Erics adapters and thermometers (I still think this is a good idea).  But it has now occurred to me that neither the adapter nor the special thermometer is needed to simply get the thermostat set correctly.

                  So heres the idea:  use a 5mm hex wrench and remove the M6 socket head cap screw from the front of the E-61 group.  Take any of the inexpensive bead-type thermocouple probes that are supplied with a DMM or inexpensive thermometer.  Insert this probe into the hole left open by removing the screw.

                  There is a procedure described by Eric to measure the correct insertion depth, but for these purposes Im not sure how critical it would be.  For starters, Id suggest inserting the tip around 15mm into the hole.

                  Then pack some paper, cloth, or something else temporarily around the probe wire where it exits the hole.  Just enough to prevent room temperature from "invading" the probes environment.

                  Let the machine warm up for an hour, and read the temp from the probe.  It should, ideally, be between 91C and 92C.  If it is not, then adjust your thermostat accordingly.

                  Remove the probe, and replace the M6 screw.

                  A couple of important, and maybe not obvious, notes:

                  1.  The temperature measurements should be made with PF and basket locked into the group.

                  2.  Do not run any water through the group until the M6 screw has been replaced.

                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                    Excellent suggestion Jim

                    Thanks. Will give it a try and add it to the CoffeeSnobs VBM Domobar Users Manual (with acknowledgement of course)

                    Steve

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                    • #25
                      Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                      Originally posted by javabeen link=1223335640/20#21 date=1223759862
                      So Philmac how cool was cool and what did you set it to?

                      I turned mine up a tad and the brew temp is better ie hotter and better tasting. Some shots were coming out a little sour/overly aqcidic and not so any more and this is with the same bean. Might get the thermoprobe out today and post the results...
                      I originally just put the thermocouple into a preheated cup and ran water into the cup from the p/f. I did this a number of times and just used my datalogging DMM to record the results to Excel. Id put a link to the result but for some reason I can only see the first page of the midrange forum - it was something like levetta brew temp?

                      Anyhow the temperature was down in the low 70s and even my 16 yo was telling me they were too cool. So Mal suggested bending the t/c wire up and over the p/f and basket and putting the bead arounfd the centre of the puck and running some shots etc.

                      The temperatures will be a little different due to diferent pressures etc and once the puck has been used once it will have slighly different resistance but it should do a reasonanble job of measuring the temp where you need to know it. I think I ended up with mine at 91.5, which obviously is close to the supposed ideal. It varies too, as to when the boiler cycles on/off etc and if you left the t/c there long enough like Randy is suggesting I guess you would see these cycles in the data. But if the boiler is not hot enough in the first place you wont get there.

                      I might connect  up  the t/c again one time and see if these cycles show up over the space on an hour or so. It didnt damage the insulation when I used it last time and Mal reakons he has checked his many times with the same t/c - so quite a cheap easy method.

                      Cheers

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                        Originally posted by PIDKits link=1223335640/20#22 date=1223770098
                        So heres the idea:  use a 5mm hex wrench and remove the M6 socket head cap screw from the front of the E-61 group.  Take any of the inexpensive bead-type thermocouple probes that are supplied with a DMM or inexpensive thermometer.  Insert this probe into the hole left open by removing the screw.
                        Just bought a DMM at Jaycar ($15) . Measures temp in the range -40 to 1000ºC ±1.5%. So at 92º there will be a error margin of just over a degree. Good enough for these purposes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                          Gosh, that is cheap! Did it come with a thermocouple, as they are usually $10 on their own.

                          Cheers

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                          • #28
                            Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                            Nah, think Ive been sold a pup. Theres nothing in the instructions that shows how to read temp, nothing on the dial to show temp gauge. The blurb on the back says Supplied with: High quality leads, temperature probe. No temperature probe!. Dud. Back to Jaycar tomorrow for a refund.

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                            • #29
                              Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                              Well ive come to the conclusion that without some kind of reference device i.e. thermometer mounted in the grouphead to get to know what your machine is doing temp wise at any given time that pulling a shot at the optimum temperature is impossible.

                              So, does anyone care to disagree and if so i would love to know how you know other than going by your taste but at the end of the day you still need to know when to extract.

                              Jim i did what you suggested with the idle temp check after Intellidepth was so kind to lend me her multimeter/thermocouple ( along with bottomless portafilter, milk temp probe and 2 bags of coffee  , i was almost waiting for her to bring the Super Lever out for me as well   ) and i found the boiler cutting in around the 85.3 and cut out at 84.8 before rising to a max of 91 and then dropping away to repeat the cycle.
                              Ive been doing a cooling flush to bring the boiler light on and then pretty well much running my shot but im starting to think its at its coolest when im doing that if the idle temps are anything to go by ?
                              This morning i decided to run the shot (seasoning shots after cleaning the machine)a little after the light went out and will continue to do this to see what difference there is.

                              I personally think that the money we are spending on these machines that the manufacturers should be putting some kind of reference device on them to give us half a chance of getting it right  

                              Darren

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: VBM Vashetta/Levetta/Piccolo Cooling Flush

                                Hi Darren

                                You might also want to check this thread: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1218701315/7#7
                                Ive ordered a naked PF from Di Bartoli as I want to make sure my dosing technique is right before I start looking at any further adjustment.

                                At present Im getting fast pours - still happening despite using the Weiss Distribution technique. If I dial my Mini any finer I get a soggy puck. Today Ive got 60mL in just under 20 secs after dialing the Mini 1/2 notch finer.. The crema looks about right but it tastes a bit sour with some water sitting on top of the puck. But I think I noticed some channeling so still some work to do on the dose/distribute/tamp technique but the naked pf will help here I think hope.

                                Steve

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