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Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

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  • #31
    Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

    Im new on the scene and been looking at lever machines. Been a real pleasure reading this thread and being able to take a peek into Johns journey with his LaPavoni. Pavoniboy, thx for sharing your expertise. This threads been a real eye-opener

    win

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    • #32
      Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

      @pavoniboy
      When you pull down on the lever it should take how many seconds?

      Midas
      Holland

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      • #33
        Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

        I go for around a 30 sec extraction including my preinfuse time of 5-8 secs.

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        • #34
          Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

          30 sec is quite fast for me….. I think I have to grind less fine.

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          • #35
            Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

            Ive been aiming at preinfusion plus 30 secs. Tried pavoniboys timing this morning and it was about right. Thanks. An interesting learning curve.

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            • #36
              Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

              We are lucky enough to own a LaPavoni similar to the OPs, a Euro Professional which we bought back in 2000.

              As we were including the grinder and base in the purchase there was not a significant difference in the pricing between the standard model and the pro, so the choice was easy, fortunate because i really preferred the look of the model with the pressure gauge.

              After 11 years constant use (at least 3 - 4 coffees per day..) and numerous rebuilds - mainly to replace or maintain the steam head seals, i have to say this is a fantastic unit. It is such a simple design, and pulls a consistently good coffee.

              Probably the only drawback is the milk frothing is very fiddly - although there are apparently workarounds, not that this really concerns us as we both drink short blacks!

              BTW - My 2c about analogue gauges is that it is always good to know what is happening inside the machine. My partner once asked me why the machine was continuing to boil water well past the green zone on the gauge... which alerted me to a fault with the pressure switch. Im not sure how quickly a fault like this would be picked up on a machine without a pressure gauge, but it could be potentially disasterous. 
              The fix turned out to be quite simple, and did not require the replacement of the pressure switch - which is very expensive! 

              Lastly - I must put in a plug for going with locally grown coffee, the coffee beans we use come from a plantation in Mareeba in FNQ and are as flavoursome as any of the competition, nice to know we are supporting local farmers - especially now that we have taken away a bit of business from local cafes

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              • #37
                Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                Firstly, thanks to Pavoniboy for the tips provided on this thread, they have helped me get some nice results from my recently acquired Europiccola. I love the machine.

                I think my biggest current issue is dose...

                Originally posted by 0E3F283130373C31275E0 link=1251710399/15#15 date=1254610263
                One thing I didnt mention was dosing. You need to dose this machine such that the dry puck is not touching the shower screen at all. Lock in the group handle with basket filled and then remove again...if you can see that the dry puck has touched the screen then the dose is too high.
                My results have been quite good: visous / decent dark crema / not at all bitter and not sour. But I think they could be better... The puck usually shows signs on channeling on the surface.

                I did the five cent test to assure that the loaded basket did not touch the screen once loaded. I do a decently hard tamp that is level and polished. I am thinking that the first flow of water from the shower disturbs the puck and results in channeling?

                I have heard some say that with this machine the ground coffee should touch the basket, though most say the opposite. In any case, I think there must be a very fine margin of error.

                Steps toward consistancy: buy a fat based tamper with side guage marks to get my tamp level consistant??

                Excuse the rambling...

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                • #38
                  Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                  I would say work on your distribution and tamping if you have obvious signs of channelling. Also gradually raise the lever and gradually lower the lever. Extraction isnt a race! I find that if you do more than one pull you need to tamp harder as the suckup from lifting the lever unsettles the puck a bit. But i dont tamp very hard myself and tend to dose under 14g in a double. Part of it is because i dont want to adjust my grind size (its somewhere in between choke and leaking without much in between) and also because i want similar feedback everytime i pull the lever which i find is easier to do if i just leisurely tamp and not worry too much about overfilling the basket or touching the shower screen.

                  And get a different tamper cos the stock one is hopeless. I have a cheapie 51mm that i got from coffeeparts which has maybe 2mm gap in between the tamp and sides of the basket but it is still better than the stock one. I wouldnt reccomend this particular tamper though but it does its job.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                    Originally posted by 66227467120 link=1251710399/37#37 date=1327753680
                    I would say work on your distribution and tamping if you have obvious signs of channelling. Also gradually raise the lever and gradually lower the lever.
                    Cheers tofu,

                    The water seems to rush quite rapidly out of the shower screen regardless of the speed at which I lift the lever. I dont find I ever need to do a second pull.

                    Originally posted by 66227467120 link=1251710399/37#37 date=1327753680
                    And get a different tamper cos the stock one is hopeless.
                    So I have heard. I got my machine second hand, and it came with a tamper that fits nicely, but it is very hin, and doesnt allow me to judge depth terribly accurately. I have a pre-millenium machine with the narrower basket. 49 mm I think.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                      I just bought a pre-millenium LP Prof 3 weeks ago and have ordered a custom 49.5mm stainless / aluminium handled tamper from an ebay retailer for ~$USD50 delivered. 

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                      • #41
                        Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                        Originally posted by 43544C4E270 link=1251710399/38#38 date=1327797476
                        Originally posted by 66227467120 link=1251710399/37#37 date=1327753680
                        I would say work on your distribution and tamping if you have obvious signs of channelling. Also gradually raise the lever and gradually lower the lever.
                        Cheers tofu,

                        The water seems to rush quite rapidly out of the shower screen regardless of the speed at which I lift the lever. I dont find I ever need to do a second pull.
                        That sounds pretty weird to me. Make sure you are lowering the lever slowly as well. There is a bit of lag between pulling down the lever and getting feedback from the machine because of how the lever is. Just because there isnt much resistance at the top of the lever doesnt mean you should rush through it.

                        If the shot is running too fast or leaking even without any pressure from the lever then maybe your grind is too coarse. But if you have a coarse grind you shouldnt see any obvious channeling cos the water will just pass through easily.

                        What does your puck actually look like? Are there any fractures or seams? When you knock it out after a shot does its stay together? Any marks that its touching the showerhead or a very uneven surface?

                        Remember that with these things that if your extraction time is much shorter than what other people reccomend as a rule of thumb for espresso its pretty normal because these old lever machines pour less coffee than modern pump machines. A double in my 51mm machine is maybe only 25-30ml with 1 pull.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                          Originally posted by 4C5B4341280 link=1251710399/38#38 date=1327797476
                          The water seems to rush quite rapidly out of the shower screen regardless of the speed at which I lift the lever.
                          Water should not be coming out of the shower screen until you are the one forcing it out by pulling on the lever.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                            Originally posted by 480C5A493C0 link=1251710399/40#40 date=1327847383
                            t0fu wrote on Jan 28th, 2012 at 10:28pm:
                            I would say work on your distribution and tamping if you have obvious signs of channelling. Also gradually raise the lever and gradually lower the lever.


                            Cheers tofu,

                            The water seems to rush quite rapidly out of the shower screen regardless of the speed at which I lift the lever. I dont find I ever need to do a second pull.

                            That sounds pretty weird to me.
                            Sorry, poor description... When I lift the lever, with no portafilter in place, the water seems to jet out with quite a bit of pressure - maybe more than other machines?

                            So my concern is that with this ruch of water the top of the prepared puck is likely to be disturbed.  Some "online sources" suggest that the puck should be dosed to just touch the shower screen to avoid this - but most do not recommend it.

                            Im curious to know how others dose for this machine.
                            :-? :-? :-?

                            Originally posted by 480C5A493C0 link=1251710399/40#40 date=1327847383
                            If the shot is running too fast or leaking even without any pressure from the lever then maybe your grind is too coarse. But if you have a coarse grind you shouldnt see any obvious channeling cos the water will just pass through easily.

                            What does your puck actually look like? Are there any fractures or seams? When you knock it out after a shot does its stay together? Any marks that its touching the showerhead or a very uneven surface?

                            Remember that with these things that if your extraction time is much shorter than what other people reccomend as a rule of thumb for espresso its pretty normal because these old lever machines pour less coffee than modern pump machines. A double in my 51mm machine is maybe only 25-30ml with 1 pull.
                            The puck comes out solid, but has indentations on the top that seem to suggest channelling.

                            I have followed Pavoni boys guide on thie thread Reply #13 with pretty good success - good tasting shots, I just think I could get a leeeetle better.

                            I have been changing beans so much lately to its hard to get much consistancy - so many factors.

                            I have to say, I am a lever convert for sure. 

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                            • #44
                              Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                              Yes, that description I gave is just a starting point to get people going. There is a lot of tweaking to be done from there, which is the fun ( for some anyway) of this machine.

                              If water pressure from the boiler seems too much, start earlier when its not as hot - pressure is a factor of heat in the boiler.

                              Have fun.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Just bought - La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever machine

                                Ive been noticing lately that Im getting less fractured pucks and more even extractions by paying attention to preinfusing VERY gently - inching the lever up millimeter by millimeter to make sure the chamber is filled slowly. Seems to be a winner for me at least!

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