Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

    Hi all

    This is my first post; please be gentle

    Ive had my BES860 for around 6 months now. It came with both "single wall" and "double wall" filter baskets (I believe this is synonymous with "unpressurised" and "pressurised" baskets???). Also note that this machine has a built-in burr grinder.

    The double wall filters are touted as able to produce a perfect coffee every time. Until recently, Ive been using these double wall baskets. They produce OK shots, however the pour is only ever 10 seconds long for a single shot. On top of this, the pour is erratic and tends to splash a lot in the cup, yielding awful bubbles in the crema. The crema is acceptable, however I dream of a pour and crema such as this: http://www.au.jura.com/jura_coffee_crema.jpg

    I figured that the problems must have come with the amateurish double wall filter baskets, so I tried switching to the single wall baskets. I dialled the fineness of the grind up a little (and adjusted dose accordingly), and ended up with a 5-second pour, very watery espresso and pathetic crema. Of course, I dialled the fineness up incrementally, producing the same results. Even at the finest setting on the grinder, a very large dose and very firm tamp, I still get pathetic crema, a too-fast (and splashy) pour and espresso that lacks the viscosity that I have seen elsewhere.

    I have used both supermarket beans and beans from small boutique coffee houses. (Neither of which I expect to be exceedingly fresh, admittedly...) This may explain my lack of crema, but surely it doesnt explain the fast pour and thin espresso...?

    In short, I get better results from the double wall filter, which seems counter-intuitive, provided I have my grind, dose and tamp dialled in correctly.

    Thanks in advance,
    -James

  • #2
    Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

    Originally posted by 747F737B6D7D72776D761E0 link=1262742562/0#0 date=1262742562
    I have used both supermarket beans and beans from small boutique coffee houses. (Neither of which I expect to be exceedingly fresh, admittedly...) This may explain my lack of crema, but surely it doesnt explain the fast pour and thin espresso...?
    Lack of fresh beans explains it all, dry stale beans cannot provide the back pressure to the brewing system, so it basically just falls through the coffee and into your cup, weak, thin and stale, Fresh beans make all the difference, coffee is a living thing, you wouldnt make guacamoli out of off avacados ;D

    Welcome to coffee snobs

    cheers
    warren

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

      Welcome to Coffee Snobs (thats the gentle part out of the way).

      Originally posted by 3E3539312737383D273C540 link=1262742562/0#0 date=1262742562
      I dream of a pour and crema such as this
      That crema looks too light to me.

      As for your too fast pours, its more than likely that the built in grinder just cant cut it (pun intended).

      With fresh beans a finer grind should result in a slower pour; simple.



      Fresh beans = less than 3 weeks from roasting.

      If you dont see a "Roasted On" date look elsewhere.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

        As TG said, plus:

        You say that you have tried higher doses--try dosing until a 5 cent piece on top of the grounds gets *gently* pushed into the grounds (just lock and unlock without actually making coffee) and see how that quantity works with the fine grind and the FRESH beans.

        Greg

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

          I would say most likely the grinder if its on the same level as the Breville BCG450 grinder.

          A friend of mine had the BCG450 paired with Breville 800ES. I bought him a non-pressurized basket, and even at the finest setting the shots poured out in 5 to 10 seconds. I brought my own grinder along and it worked fine.

          In the end, he had to upgrade his grinder as he didnt want to go back to using the pressurized basket.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

            Sounds like your grinder isnt grinding fine enough, you arent tamping hard enough, beans arent freshly roasted or a combination of all three.

            Never use the pressurized baskets.

            Perhaps try a different grinder, if yours is a cheapy that cant grind fine enough? You could post macro photos here if you want a rough analysis of your grind size... but again grind depends on the beans. Some blends/origins need a finer grind than others to achieve the same speed of extraction.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

              In my limited experience with the Fresca, it should be able to grind fine enough for a decent pour.

              As has already been mentioned:

              1. Buy freshly roasted beans (no more than 2 weeks old)
              2. Dose the basket using the 5c trick Greg suggested
              3. Tamp nice & firmly.  To give you an idea of how firm to push, tamp on top of some bathroom scales to around 15kg

              If youre still getting a fast pour, ring Breville.  If you have a friend with a good quality grinder, Id second the recommendation for trying your machine with their grinder.

              Also the crema to aim for should look more like this photo



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                Originally posted by 5A5B51425C5943300 link=1262742562/6#6 date=1262819951
                1. Buy freshly roasted beans (no more than 2 weeks old)
                The fresher the better for the test as even fresh beans will need a finer grind as they age.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                  Sorry to have taken so long to reply; Ive been away from my computer for a few days.

                  Thanks all for your suggestions. Attached are some macro shots of the grinds. It could be my untrained eye, but I cant see that much of a difference between the most coarse setting and the finest setting. Ive also attached a shot of some old pre-ground coffee I have left over from my plunger days. This coffee isnt even rated for espresso: its a coarser grind for plungers! Even this is far finer and more uniform than my finest Breville grind. This leads me to believe it could be the in-built grinder.

                  That said, I will give some fresh beans a go, as soon as I can get into Di Bella in the city. (Im assuming Di Bella coffee isnt taboo in the Coffee Snobs world. :P Are there any other decent roasters around Brisbane worth mentioning?)

                  Im very much leaning towards a grinder issue, as even the pre-ground coffee meant for PLUNGERS is finer than my finest Breville grind. Ill try a shot from my 12 month old pre-ground coffee, and though I dont expect any crema, I might get a normal(-ish) extraction time. That way, I could (for all intents and purposes) rule out stale beans as the culprit. Wish me luck! I shall post the results!

                  Thanks,
                  -James

                  CHANGE OF PLANS: The system doesnt want to play ball with the attachments (even when heavily compresssed...) so Ive stuck them in my Dropbox. Just click the links below to view the photos.  :

                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Coarsest.jpg
                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Finest.jpg
                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Pre-Ground.jpg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                    Originally posted by 7279757D6B7B74716B70180 link=1262742562/8#8 date=1262949812
                    Sorry to have taken so long to reply; Ive been away from my computer for a few days.

                    Thanks all for your suggestions. Attached are some macro shots of the grinds. It could be my untrained eye, but I cant see that much of a difference between the most coarse setting and the finest setting. Ive also attached a shot of some old pre-ground coffee I have left over from my plunger days. This coffee isnt even rated for espresso: its a coarser grind for plungers! Even this is far finer and more uniform than my finest Breville grind. This leads me to believe it could be the in-built grinder.

                    That said, I will give some fresh beans a go, as soon as I can get into Di Bella in the city. (Im assuming Di Bella coffee isnt taboo in the Coffee Snobs world. :P Are there any other decent roasters around Brisbane worth mentioning?)

                    Im very much leaning towards a grinder issue, as even the pre-ground coffee meant for PLUNGERS is finer than my finest Breville grind. Ill try a shot from my 12 month old pre-ground coffee, and though I dont expect any crema, I might get a normal(-ish) extraction time. That way, I could (for all intents and purposes) rule out stale beans as the culprit. Wish me luck! I shall post the results!

                    Thanks,
                    -James

                    CHANGE OF PLANS: The system doesnt want to play ball with the attachments (even when heavily compresssed...) so Ive stuck them in my Dropbox. Just click the links below to view the photos.  :

                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Coarsest.jpg
                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Finest.jpg
                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1857056/Pre-Ground.jpg
                    Where in Brisbane are you...

                    1: DiBella is a SPONSOR...

                    2: Their beans are OK..  Well a lot better than many others...  Just get from the main establishment at Albion.

                    3: The beans all look BLACK...  Decaff by any chance ?

                    I am only 5 min from Di Bella... So if ya going to be there.. Give me a call... / PM

                    You can drop around or I can come in and give teh Di Bella satff a hard time and we can have a coffee.

                    AM

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                      Originally posted by 644B42405768444B44424048404B51250 link=1262742562/9#9 date=1262951541

                      Where in Brisbane are you...

                      1: DiBella is a SPONSOR...

                      2: Their beans are OK..  Well a lot better than many others...  Just get from the main establishment at Albion.

                      3: The beans all look BLACK...   Decaff by any chance ?

                      I am only 5 min from Di Bella... So if ya going to be there.. Give me a call... / PM

                      You can drop around or I can come in and give teh Di Bella satff a hard time and we can have a coffee.

                      AM
                      The beans arent decaf. Its just a badly exposed photo, I would guess.

                      Thanks for your offer by the way! As it turns out, I have a contact (well... a friend of a friend...) working at Di Bella, so I may have a chat with him.

                      By the way, I tried that fine pre-ground coffee, and got the same results. I guess it really is the stale beans.

                      So until I can get my hands on some fresh beans, Ill keep drinking my watery espresso - devoid of all crema - and tell myself its a long black. ;D

                      -James

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                        Fresh beans = less than 3 weeks from roasting.
                        Thunder, can you really get your coffee to last more than 7 days?
                        I know Im in trouble to get a decent pour after 7 days. People often talk about having coffee too fresh. Way better having stale and dry coffee.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                          Originally posted by 6245414E6D4F4E4B4559200 link=1262742562/11#11 date=1263420495
                          Fresh beans = less than 3 weeks from roasting.
                          Thunder, can you really get your coffee to last more than 7 days?
                          I know Im in trouble to get a decent pour after 7 days. People often talk about having coffee too fresh.  Way better having stale and dry coffee.
                          WTFUTA "Way better having stale and dry coffee" :-?

                          Most of my coffee is lucky to last 2 weeks from roast date..

                          1: First 4 - 7 days it usually de gasses in teh one way valves

                          2: Then it gets used... Note: Grind does have to be managed as even over the last 5 days it changes...

                          3: On occasion... I have been caught where I roast in the evening and start using the next afternoon... Change the grind setting and just accept the fresh / raw flavours... Over a week t changes and usually I get to day 5 or 7 and GO that is getting to be a good roast... Opps... Have run out already..

                          A mate of mine... changes his grinder settings on average about 4 times during the day... When it is hot and humid... Winter... maybe two times... As he also says... It depends on the beans...

                          I know Im in trouble to get a decent pour after 7 days
                          Look at your Grind and tamp ... then look again at ya grind and tamp...

                          2 + 2 = 5 (good coffee) people keep forgetting that 2 + 2 does not equal 4 if we are talking about coffee.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                            Originally posted by 4F686C634062636668740D0 link=1262742562/11#11 date=1263420495
                            Thunder, can you really get your coffee to last more than 7 days?
                            Im currently finishing off some Kimel I roasted 30/12/09; that makes it 14 days today.
                            Over the last week its been tasting better than it did when I tasted it around day 4.

                            Its my first KKTO roast and even though it looked good Id wondered if I stuffed it somehow.
                            I havent roasted for quite some time since the corretto died; I thought Id lost it.

                            Im also about to crack open another bag of coffee from Supreme Roasters that Roger so kindly sent me.
                            They were roasted 02/01/10 but Im not worried about them.

                            BeanMonkey you might need to pay me a visit before you move.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Breville Fresca BES860 Erratic Pour

                              Thanks for your offer TG. Ive moved. Maybe see you when Im up.

                              AM take is easy. I still get a good pour, its just that I have to really work it. Two weeks is about right. If I can get a good pour from Woolies Beans than Im doing alright in terms of technique.

                              Check you tamp? Should be identical every time yeah? The only thing that should change is the grind.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X