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  • Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    I have just tested the second EM6910 I have received, having returned the first today, on Sunbeams advice, for having a lower than expected water temperature at the grouphead.

    Sunbeams user manual states that the EM6910 "is calibrated to the precise temperature of 92 degrees" yet this machine, and the one I returned, produced a thermometer measured temperature of 65 degrees. Programming the machine to increase the thermoblock temperature +4 degrees saw the temperature increase, as youd expect, to 69 degrees.

    Sunbeams advice was to return my first machine, admitting it was faulty. If this is the case the logically my second is to having repeated the results I got from my initial purchase. I was told the water temperature should be 92 degrees as stated in the manual.

    A work colleague bought an EM 6910 at the same time and has exactly the same result.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Is this an error of mine or this just a case of a shop receiving a bad batch of machines of which I have received 2?

  • #2
    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Originally posted by 78575E4C4A74390 link=1266222481/0#0 date=1266222481
    I have just tested the second EM6910 I have received, having returned the first today, on Sunbeams advice, for having a lower than expected water temperature at the grouphead.

    Sunbeams user manual states that the EM6910 "is calibrated to the precise temperature of 92 degrees" yet this machine, and the one I returned, produced a thermometer measured temperature of 65 degrees. Programming the machine to increase the thermoblock temperature +4 degrees saw the temperature increase, as youd expect, to 69 degrees.

    Sunbeams advice was to return my first machine, admitting it was faulty. If this is the case the logically my second is to having repeated the results I got from my initial purchase. I was told the water temperature should be 92 degrees as stated in the manual.

    A work colleague bought an EM 6910 at the same time and has exactly the same result.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Is this an error of mine or this just a case of a shop receiving a bad batch of machines of which I have received 2?
    The manual is sort of correct but at the same time wrong.

    It depends on how and where you measure the temp..

    Usualy about 87 +/- 2 as it exits the group head..  But cools even further as it hits the group / coffee and even less by the time it hits the cup..  This is normal.

    Thus the reason why you need to let it sit and and have the group in to come up to temp .  With no water.. And up to temp say 20 min... Check the temp of the group head - Internally.

    Note - You are using an accurate  calibrated temperature meter ?

    Sorry.... But without real measurments and knowing how they were taken.. It sounds normal to me.

    Do a search as this has been all discussed about 12 months ago.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

      Thanks AngerManagement.

      My Thermometer is a standard, analogue milk temperature thermometer tested using my hot water system, which I can adjust the temperature by in 1 degree increments and that I know to be accurate. The milk thermometer is approx -1 to -2 degree out. It measures boiling water at 98 degrees.

      The water from the group-head was tested straight through (no group handle) into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

      I hope I am doing something wrong in my measurement and what these machines are doing is usual (despite Sunbeam defining the first as obviously faulty) because this is not something I expected from a machine with the great reputation of the 6910.



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

        Originally posted by 644B42505668250 link=1266222481/2#2 date=1266227568
        Thanks AngerManagement.

        My Thermometer is a standard, analogue milk temperature thermometer tested using my hot water system, which I can adjust the temperature by in 1 degree increments and that I know to be accurate. The milk thermometer is approx -1 to -2 degree out. It measures boiling water at 98 degrees.

        The water from the group-head was tested straight through (no group handle) into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

        I hope I am doing something wrong in my measurement and what these machines are doing is usual (despite Sunbeam defining the first as obviously faulty) because this is not something I expected from a machine with the great reputation of the 6910.

        How do you know its accurate ? Most of these things have a 2 to 5 deadband and most temp meters have an accuracy of about 1 or 2C and then the actual thermistor has another 1 or 2C..

        Just because some meters can read 92.05C it only means that it is that +/- the total accuracy; thus it could be say 96 or it could be 88 and both are 100% correct.

        YEp...

        Response times and assumptions.. PEBFAG

        If ya getting 64 - 70 in a SS milk jug.. Then ya more than likely to have a machine that is spot ON.

        Even with the ss jug warmed... Surface area / temp transfer losses and the losses as it falls through the air is enough to loose more than a few C.

        As I said.. Not so simple and no machine that would give 92C measured at teh jug would give a coffee I would want.. Would be BURNT to crap..

        Tis why some here use very special measurement devices and some are not cheep... My not so old old +/- 0.1C (total accuracy) unit cost in excess of $800 and only has a temp range of 20C to 70C at that accuracy.. +/- 0.2 from -10 to 200. It is about fit for purpose..

        Milk thermometers and many other temp measuring items are nothing more than an INDICATOR.... etc

        Even teh CS data logger and probe has accuracy requirements and thus when people start comparing to within 2c.. They can be fooling them selves as it is also about placement as well as the accuracy...

        Sorry OFF topic.. Too long in the metrology / calibration field ;D

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

          Thanks. My blood pressure is slowly returning to normal. :-?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

            Originally posted by 113E3725231D500 link=1266222481/4#4 date=1266230831
            Thanks. My blood pressure is slowly returning to normal.  :-?
            Is that because of my post  ;D

            Or

            that you now have a better understanding of the issues at hand ?

            AND

            That the Em910 is not so bad after all  

            PS. See here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1241125627/17#17 and read all here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1241125627

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

              All of the above.

              Appreciate your help.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

                After reading your post i thought i would do a test of my own,
                using a Fluke 51 K/J thermometer and using a fast response k type thermocouple probe, no group handle fitted, i got the temp readings of 88.6c to start and it tapered off to 75.8 at the shower screen.
                i then placed a latte glass under the head ( no group handle ) and placed the probe in it. the reading i got in the glass was 68.5c.
                Hope this helps, but will prop just add more confusion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                  Thanks for that theredcapsicum.

                  Anyone else care to share their temperature readings?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                    Originally posted by 230C0517112F620 link=1266222481/2#2 date=1266227568
                    into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

                    This in itself could bring the group water temp down if you dont give it long enough to recover.

                    How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                      Remember that a thermoblock is designed to heat to a specific temperature with a specific flowrate in mind.


                      If you are measuring by pulling a blank shot [ie no coffee in the PF]
                      the water will flow too quickly through the thermoblock and will not be properly heated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                        How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.
                        There have been some some sour espressos but I didnt put this down to a potential water temperature issue until a short-black was made for a friend who commented it was only warm and not the temperature her machine makes them. On measuring water tempertaure from the hot water wand it was only just 65 degrees. A double espresso shot was 40 degrees. I then did the thermoblock water measurement and got the same 65 degrees without the programmed +4 temperature boost.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                          All temperature values are partially nominal.

                          What we need to do is a standardised test across a range of SBs and look at the results, ignoring variances of a couple of degrees.

                          If what you are saying is true then the variance will be well past a different thermometer variance. You are talking 20+ degrees or so.

                          Come up with a basic test or two that we can all do exactly the same and Im in.

                          Ill help you out AngusM

                          Chris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                            Originally posted by 4F58485F4E49584F3D0 link=1266222481/10#10 date=1266289263
                            Remember that a thermoblock is designed to heat to a specific temperature with a specific flowrate in mind.


                            If you are measuring by pulling a blank shot [ie no coffee in the PF]
                            the water will flow too quickly through the thermoblock and will not be properly heated.
                            AND

                            Originally posted by 4955584F58595E5C4D4E545E48503D0 link=1266222481/7#7 date=1266271312
                            using a Fluke 51 K/J thermometer and using a fast response k type thermocouple probe, no group handle fitted, i got the temp readings of 88.6c to start and it tapered off to 75.8 at the shower screen.
                            This is as expected..

                            It is not a simple process.. It is about the reaction time of the thermoblock, the water flow rate, through a perfect puck - with a pre warmed group etc etc and into a warm cup.

                            As I said before.. It sounds about right.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

                              Originally posted by 624D4456506E230 link=1266222481/11#11 date=1266298081
                              How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.
                              There have been some some sour espressos but I didnt put this down to a potential water temperature issue until a short-black was made for a friend who commented it was only warm and not the temperature her machine makes them. On measuring water tempertaure from the hot water wand it was only just 65 degrees. A double espresso shot was 40 degrees. I then did the thermoblock water measurement and got the same 65 degrees without the programmed +4 temperature boost.

                              40 deg sounds pretty cool - I take it you preheated the cup?

                              I have found that unless almost the entire spike of my milk thermo is in the liquid, it is really inaccurate. Learned that one while using it to simmer milk to make yogurt, the milk boiled with a reading of about 70 :

                              Comment

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