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The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

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  • The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

    1) Thermoblocks are susceptible to scale buildup. Use soft water at all cost to prolong machine life.

    !!!??? The steam thermoblock cannot be descaled, according to the manual!!!???

    2) The anti-calc filter attached to the sunbeam water tank reduces scale, but needs to be changed every 12 months (according to the manual)

    3) It *may* be possible to recharge it by soaking it in brine (more info needed. Has anyone done this before?). This will save you $35.

    4) Descaling is reccommended every three months. 60ml vinegar in 1.5L water run through the grouphead. Remember to remove the showerscreen under the group head beforehand for maximum efficiency.



    From the manual
    Important: Do not run descaling solution
    through the steam wand.

    Questions:

    1) How could you recharge the anti-calc filter?
    2) Would the built in filter + an activated carbon based filter (eg. Brita jugs) be sufficient to prevent scale buildup? Especially in the steam thermoblock that could not be descaled...

    =============================
    Info:

    http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html
    I tested the filter new, and after 3 weeks, or 75 liters use (about half the recommended cartridge life) on 150mg/l hardness, 100 mg/l alkalinity water. As expected, the filter left the alkalinity unaffected. Only about 2/3 of the hardness was removed when the filter was a few days old, and its performance dropped to 1/3 removal after three weeks. This probably is due to it being designed to remove heavy metals, rather than calcium. The NSAs refusal to allow Brita to advertise in the U.S. as a water softener is therefore not just bureaucratic gobbledygook, but justified by the facts. I have not tested the Pur jug filter or the Claris system; the identical design principal probably results in similar performance.

    http://www.sunbeam.com.au/Pages/Browse/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=1321
    Original Sunbeam Liquid descaler is only $6 for 250ml. Uses one capful for each descale. Quick online check shows people are selling it for over $15. Somethings not right here...

    ============================================
    Oh you had it coming

    Originally posted by 537C7577605F737C7375777F777C66120 link=1270002420/21#21 date=1270103810
    Originally posted by 3E3120580 link=1270002420/10#10 date=1270029470
    when descaling machine, remove filter, as descal can damage the resin particles

    water filters reduce the amount of scale / hardness in the water, but unless you are using filters that cost $200, then that is all you are doing, is reducing

    6900/10 are very very suseptacle to scale problems
    as are all  thermoblock units

    most steaming/ temperature problems are associated with lack of descaling or not replacing calc filters

    i reccomend descaling a sunbeam at least every 3 months

    and no this isnt an add for selling more descaling tablets or anti calc filters

    graham
    So true...  

    But next week we will get asked if a Filter is a Filter / Do I need to clean my machine... / Vinegar is good enough  ;D

    Assumptions Kill.. CS search eng has the answers... Now; leave me alone, I am trying to sleep  8-)

  • #2
    Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

    Originally posted by 7F60687B767377771A0 link=1270304292/0#0 date=1270304292
    1) Thermoblocks are susceptible to scale buildup. Use soft water at all cost to prolong machine life.

    !!!??? The steam thermoblock cannot be descaled, according to the manual!!!???

    2) The anti-calc filter attached to the sunbeam water tank reduces scale, but needs to be changed every 12 months (according to the manual)

    3) It *may* be possible to recharge it by soaking it in brine (more info needed. Has anyone done this before?). This will save you $35.

    4) Descaling is reccommended every three months. 60ml vinegar in 1.5L water run through the grouphead. Remember to remove the showerscreen under the group head beforehand for maximum efficiency.


    From the manual
    Important: Do not run descaling solution
    through the steam wand.

    Questions:

    1) How could you recharge the anti-calc filter?
    2) Would the built in filter + an activated carbon based filter (eg. Brita jugs) be sufficient to prevent scale buildup? Especially in the steam thermoblock that could not be descaled...


    ============================================
    Oh you had it coming

    Originally posted by 537C7577605F737C7375777F777C66120 link=1270002420/21#21 date=1270103810
    Originally posted by 3E3120580 link=1270002420/10#10 date=1270029470
    when descaling machine, remove filter, as descal can damage the resin particles

    water filters reduce the amount of scale / hardness in the water, but unless you are using filters that cost $200, then that is all you are doing, is reducing

    6900/10 are very very suseptacle to scale problems
    as are all  thermoblock units

    most steaming/ temperature problems are associated with lack of descaling or not replacing calc filters

    i reccomend descaling a sunbeam at least every 3 months

    and no this isnt an add for selling more descaling tablets or anti calc filters

    graham
    So true...  

    But next week we will get asked if a Filter is a Filter / Do I need to clean my machine... / Vinegar is good enough  ;D

    Assumptions Kill.. CS search eng has the answers... Now; leave me alone, I am trying to sleep  8-)


    Never use Vinegar..  :P  Tis crap except for drinking when ya sick  :-X

    Use the correct cleaning materials - SB even supply the tabs and they are different for good reason... As Mr Fix said..

    most steaming/ temperature problems are associated with lack of descaling or not replacing calc filters
    Back-flush detergent  and a De-scaler for de-scaling.. READ the manual, they are different..


    As to A solution through the steam wand...  Search CS..

    The manual says NO; because most users will use the wrong product or  not follow the process and then want to blame some one.. A thermo block is a thermo block... But this one gets hot and the chemical react a little different and are not good for most creatures that walk upright. However as many seem to have knuckles that drag on the floor... It may yet be a real solution

    Mr Fix and I have our own methods to try and clean these sections. If done correctly - it is safe and can clean most blockages..  If not done correctly -  then you can STUFF the machine even more that you already have and or your self.

    Strange is it not..  People will harp on about little crap and ignore the fact that every manual carries warnings about 240V and only authorised persons.  240V will kill ya quickly... Every one ignores... A few chemicals may take 20 years to make ya sick and every one gets their knickers in a knot.

    Quote one part of the manual and ignore others or quote; but do it out of context..  No wonder people get confused and start assuming...

    All been said a dozen times previously in other 6910 discussions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

      Vinegar is fine - as is citric acid - according to the 6910 manual. Probably stick to white vinegar and not balsamic though

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

        ok ok, all this talk of scale and anti calc filters and scaley pics I found has got me paranoid. Probably rightly so.

        Are the Cafetto Restore Descaler sachets up to the task for a EM6910?

        Or seeing as its much better value, the Cafetto Vanish descaler in a tub...or is that one too strong for a 6910?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

          Originally posted by 5578380 link=1270304292/2#2 date=1270419339
          Vinegar is fine - as is citric acid - according to the 6910 manual. Probably stick to white vinegar and not balsamic though

          I dont think thats good advice. i would NOT recommend using vinegar for the em 6910. It will stuff of your machine for sure. Just read AMs post.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

            Originally posted by 454A515D45404552240 link=1270304292/4#4 date=1270435225
            I dont think thats good advice. i would NOT recommend using vinegar for the em 6910. It will stuff of your machine for sure.  
            I trust AM before Sunbeam, however this is what it says on page 32 of the Instruction Book.

            Descaling solution
            Use any of the following when descaling the
            espresso machine:
            [ch61694] Sunbeam Espresso Machine Descaling
            Tablets (EM0010)
            [ch61694] Sunbeam Liquid Descaler (KE0100), or
            [ch61694] Vinegar Solution.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

              Originally posted by 575B484E4853423A0 link=1270304292/3#3 date=1270430651
              ok ok, all this talk of scale and anti calc filters and scaley pics I found has got me paranoid. Probably rightly so.

              Are the Cafetto Restore Descaler sachets up to the task for a EM6910?

              Or seeing as its much better value, the Cafetto Vanish descaler in a tub...or is that one too strong for a 6910?
              Use the SB descaler as recommended on page 32... In that order..   3 table spoons of vinegar in 1.5 L of water is going to give you a smell and thats about all.

              Note these recommendations are guidelines and are assuming your using Good filtered water and do not have a problem..

              Originally posted by 5B544F435B5E5B4C3A0 link=1270304292/4#4 date=1270435225
              Originally posted by 5578380 link=1270304292/2#2 date=1270419339
              Vinegar is fine - as is citric acid - according to the 6910 manual. Probably stick to white vinegar and not balsamic though  

              I dont think thats good advice. i would NOT recommend using vinegar for the em 6910. It will stuff of your machine for sure. Just read AMs post.  
              If ya going to use Vinegar.. Ya might as well use balsamic for all the good / bad it will do.


              So BTFB...

              1: Filter in good condition and or filtered water.. The type that is focused on reducing scale.  I always use the SB filter and re charge it; as well as fill from my main filtered water system.

              2: Regular maintenance as required by your use / throughput.  SB tabs or 1/4 tea spoon of Cafetto or other like BACK-FLUSHING solution..

              3: Do the shower screens.. I do when back-flushing  AND when I do a descale.

              NOTE: Remove the SB in-line filter before doing a Descale.

              4: Always have a spare seal on hand.

              You deviate from the manual and these steps and ya get what ya deserve...

              Should you, choke the system too often or use a blind filter  and or  OVERDOSE; then your going to see steam and gauge problems; followed by collar problems...

              Followed by $$$ to upgrade or get it repaired.

              Strange enough... The same is for all systems; if you choose to abuse or do not follow GP.....


              WARNING:

              Heavy descalers and running stuff through the Steam wand / system... Is when all else has failed and your prepaired to donate the said unit to me... After / If  you stuff it  

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                Originally posted by 2D2239352D282D3A4C0 link=1270304292/4#4 date=1270435225
                Originally posted by 5578380 link=1270304292/2#2 date=1270419339
                Vinegar is fine - as is citric acid - according to the 6910 manual. Probably stick to white vinegar and not balsamic though  

                I dont think thats good advice. i would NOT recommend using vinegar for the em 6910. It will stuff of your machine for sure. Just read AMs post.  
                Its not advice, its a statement of unequivocal fact. Unless you mean that you would use balsamic

                If anyone wants to explain why Sunbeam are wrong when they state in the manual that vinegar is an acceptable descaler Im all ears...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                  Originally posted by 2F02420 link=1270304292/7#7 date=1270437648
                  Its not advice, its a statement of unequivocal fact. Unless you mean that you would use balsamic :lol:

                  If anyone wants to explain why Sunbeam are wrong when they state in the manual that vinegar is an acceptable descaler Im all ears...
                  Well on that point i would like you to try it yourself and let us all know how it goes.

                  The reason it says that in the manual i cant comprehend. But if you can spend $600-$700 on a coffee machine and then start taking short cuts for maintenance of the machine that i cant understand.

                  Maybe if you do stuff it up. Sunbeam will give you a new machine as you were just following their manual :

                  Anyway go with sunbeams manual and try it. And do let us know.
                  Good luck.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                    Originally posted by 4A67270 link=1270304292/7#7 date=1270437648
                    If anyone wants to explain why Sunbeam are wrong when they state in the manual that vinegar is an acceptable descaler Im all ears...
                    It is in its own right.. Still used by some for their kettles etc..

                    Does that make it the best choice.. NA.. That is why its LAST on their list.

                    Besides if ya been doing ya maintenance; the scale may just be minimal and not a big deal... If ya like the smell
                    If like 99% of people who leave it to the last moment.. In a rush before taking to the service centre.. Then even the better stuff is not good enough.

                    Besides loosen scale Vs dissolve is very different. And if ya use vinigar or other stuff and loosen scale.. Ya better not run through the steam wand... SM warning... Will = Blocked Thermoblock.

                    Originally posted by 4649525E46434651270 link=1270304292/8#8 date=1270438160
                    Well on that point i would like you to try it yourself and let us all know how it goes.
                    Ya..Me too...

                    Let ya system get all dirty and covered in scale and we can do a side by side descale shoot off...

                    I pick a proper descaler


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                      If its within the warranty period and you use vinegar to descale and follow all other Sunbeam instructions then you have a solid case for a replacement machine should something go wrong.

                      Notice that the first two recommended products are Sunbeam products.
                      Anything other than those two or vinegar would give them an excuse to blame you and charge you for a repair.

                      Once outside warranty you can do what you like because its then your problem.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                        Originally posted by 524D45565B5E5A5A370 link=1270304292/0#0 date=1270304292
                        Questions:

                        1) How could you recharge the anti-calc filter?
                        This part of Ezralimms original post has been overlooked.

                        Originally posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1270304292/6#6 date=1270436788
                        I always use the SB filter and re charge it;
                        I would be interested in how you do this, too. If you would explain please AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                          Originally posted by 4E454E565D401A182F0 link=1270304292/11#11 date=1270460874
                          Originally posted by 524D45565B5E5A5A370 link=1270304292/0#0 date=1270304292
                          Questions:

                          1) How could you recharge the anti-calc filter?
                          This part of Ezralimms original post has been overlooked.

                          Originally posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1270304292/6#6 date=1270436788
                          I always use the SB filter and re charge it;
                          I would be interested in how you do this, too. If you would explain please AM.
                          Same as stated before by myself and others... soak in salty water for 4 to 8 hrs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                            Thanks for that!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The 6910 battle against limescale. Info Compiled (first post)

                              Adding my 2cents re "descaler"....I find it refreshing that a company offers alternatives (eg Vinegar), rather than insisting that you must use their product.

                              I have had EM6900/6910 for about 4 Years.  In that time, I have had 4 or 5 machines (cant be sure) due to issues that developed with the Steam Wand (6900 series), and failed pump (6910).  With all of those machines, I only ever used Vinegar as my descaling solution.  I never had a problem with Sunbeam repairing/replacing the machine during the warranty period...in fact, the last one was replaced outside the warranty period.  There was no inquisitions about what descaler I had used.

                              Obviously, I dont enjoy taking my machine back for repairs so with the current machine (more than 12 months old now), I am using the Sunbeam descaler tablets for the first time.  Hopefully, as others have suggested, the Sunbeam product will prove to be a better option than using vinegar.

                              This post is merely in response to questions about Sunbeams support if the vinegar option was used.

                              Comment

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