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EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

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  • #31
    Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

    Originally posted by 0E253F24233C4C0 link=1289144599/29#29 date=1302595780
    Fit and finish is like a lot of reviews have said, its both nice, to look at etc, but things like the drip tray and water tank seem just a mix of not quite spot on, or weirdly industrial, its certainly built to a budget, but then at the same time it does seem built to last, does that make sense?.
    Id say strong where it matters - the coffee making side of it. Cheap where it doesnt (drip tray etc).

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    • #32
      Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

      Setting up for use, well I have a fairly new EM Cafe Sunbeam grinder, which grinds a lot finer than my original cheaper EM did, running changes I noticed different burrs and it just seems shimmed better?.

      Anyway, right off after priming etc, Im trying shots, grinder was set around 8 for my Saeco before it died, usually around 8-9, been using 10 for my stovetop, thought it may need to be finer for the Lelit.

      Coffee is about 1.5 weeks old Merlo Rivera, tasted ok in the Saeco which was doing ever increasing bitter shots and its a mild coffee and suited the stovetop.

      So like 7 on the grinder and its a slow and very sour shot (though I dont usually drink non milk unless Im chasing setup), messing around Im doing 9-10 not sure of dose or tamp, half dozen sour or bitter shots, in the end I break out a short glass with marks for 30ml to try and dial everything (took me ages to dial in the old saeco age and design was not its friend).

      Having a measured glass handy, timer and repeating consistent dose with a practiced tamp paid off, after about the 7th shot it came out nice, tasted ok, and flow almost right, one last grinder tweak up to 11, and it seemed ok to make a flat white.

      Shot for my flat white came out spot on, so first go at steaming...
      This has always gotten me with every machine I have bought, you get so used to the old one, so I knew Id cock it up, and of course I did.

      In truth, pure power killed my technique, my saeco was not bad, faster than either the old thermoblocks by a mile, but the Lelit just pumps out steam like nothing Im used to using, by the time I had adjusted the jug to suit my grip on the short nozzle, it was up to temp, and thin with not enough bulk.

      I do wish the steam arm was longer, but really hard to fault the power, it heated up very fast to steaming temps, then probably steamed in half the time of the saeco, which steamed in 1/3rd the time of either old thermoblock.

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      • #33
        Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

        Originally posted by 2F30322831243332255D0 link=1289144599/30#30 date=1302596076
        Originally posted by 0E253F24233C4C0 link=1289144599/29#29 date=1302595780
        Fit and finish is like a lot of reviews have said, its both nice, to look at etc, but things like the drip tray and water tank seem just a mix of not quite spot on, or weirdly industrial, its certainly built to a budget, but then at the same time it does seem built to last, does that make sense?.
        Id say strong where it matters - the coffee making side of it. Cheap where it doesnt (drip tray etc).
        Yeah, Id say that is spot on, made to a function, then scaled to do it at a price.

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        • #34
          Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

          More in depth impressions and observations...

          Well I think for a start, I have to say I think my 2002 Saeco did better shots that I ever gave it credit for, but having said that, the Lelit blows it out of the water, bigger baskets/group like with the Lelit (which I measure at damn near 57.75mm) seem a lot easier to work with, good tamper is a must have, dont fool yourself otherwise (I factored it into the cost I needed to spend getting a new machine, like $60+).

          There is more ability to tweak with something like a Lelit, you simply run up against a wall with something like a small saeco I think, small basket less pressure etc, with the lelit you can vary the dose a lot, size makes tamping easier, positive good seal on the group and great pressure pumps everything out well, design makes everything quite clean to use (benefit of near full size group?).

          Notes:
          Coffee dose, manual says scoop and a half (single basket), other guide says one scoop, in practice I found a smidge over one scoop, say like loose level fill of basket off grinder, then tap to settle then mid strength tamp worked for me.

          Tactile finish on other parts is a little rough, but it all looks like its made to last, which is good.

          Power cord is too short, I changed the saeco one, that was super short, but Im not about to void my Lelit warranty.

          Overall, I now see exactally why youd buy a Sunbeam, or spend more on a Silvia, but I also see why if your looking to save money like me, or want something that is bullet proof, why youd buy the Lelit.

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          • #35
            Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

            Oh and thanks to Talk Coffee for the machine, Chris is a pleasure to deal with.

            Tamper from different source is sorting out a mild mess, part fault to shipping who seems to have dropped it (several not so great marks), but also cause packing could have prevented that, and I got sent the wrong model. :-/

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            • #36
              Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

              More notes, the making of a shot is quiet on a Lelit, the old Saeco was loud, but ironically its a lot louder steaming where the Saeco was quieter.

              Also Im failing my texturing of milk with it big time, trying all Im used to and still failing somehow, I miss my silky smooth milk. 
              This weekend I may buy a few big bottles of milk, and spend an afternoon just seeing if I can get it right somehow.

              Edit: Just when you feel lost, you dive in with some aggression and almost get it, pulled the machine closer to the edge of the bench, brought the nozzle forward towards me more, changed hands/grip, and damn near got close to what Im used to, yay me.

              My next focus is trying to get some more strength out of the brew, maybe cause the shots are so good, but my coffee tastes weaker than Im used to, could be the aging beans though.

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              • #37
                Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                You can use a jug of water with a drop of dishwashing liquid in it to practice steaming. Not exactly the same as milk but behaves similar. I found it useful, and youre not using up milk.

                Cheers

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                • #38
                  Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                  Ok, small update time...

                  Lelit is nice and easy to keep clean, love that, really does need 15+min to warm up, can live with that, steaming still not going that well...

                  So I was still unable to get really good silky milk, decided to try something and found some interesting results...

                  Noticed for a start the steam nozzle on the Lelit is quite large, went and looked at the saeco pannarello remembering its fairly small, decided to put the saeco pannarello on the Lelit...

                  While removing the original tip on the Lelit I found it had a crack, now Im not 100% sure it did not crack while unscrewing it, but I only used a tiny spanner to remove it, with minimal force, so cant say for sure.

                  Well I put on the saeco pannarello, fired everything up to make a flat white, and right away with the pannarello tip (no cover), got perfect silky smooth milk like I was used to with the saeco.
                   

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                  • #39
                    Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                    Originally posted by 507B617A7D62120 link=1289144599/37#37 date=1303406185
                    Ok, small update time...
                    Mate, its 3.16am maybe you need to cut back on the coffee a fraction  :

                    I struggled with the milk initially, but I followed the tips here and am starting to have success:
                    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1296200439

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                    • #40
                      Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                      Originally posted by 072E3C2F2A2525222E4B0 link=1289144599/38#38 date=1303427023
                      Originally posted by 507B617A7D62120 link=1289144599/37#37 date=1303406185
                      Ok, small update time...
                      Mate, its 3.16am maybe you need to cut back on the coffee a fraction  :
                      :-? You realize not everyone is a nine to five drone right?.

                      And like I said, be it the cracked nozzle giving me issues or other, the different nozzle gave me perfect micro foam, so Im not sure I need to do anything else.

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                      • #41
                        Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                        Updates for my own sake as anyone else, I like to back check my own thoughts...

                        Small or medium pitcher, totally love steaming with my Lelit now, the saeco nozzle just makes it easy, switching milk brands and buying a small 400ml jug actually improved my technique.

                        My shots though are still a work in progress, what Im getting is not bad, but Im finding a weakness in the body of the shot taste wise, Im getting a perfectly drinkable result, but not with the taste up to what I know it should be?.

                        Aiming for a volume based off time, I end up with something that blondes quite soon, yet I vary method and it chokes or runs far too long, or cant tamp hard enough to compensate.

                        This is likely me just being a perfectionist though at this point, for some reason I keep wanting more and more lately, I have a terrible feeling it may end up being expensive.

                        Oh, and has anyone else seen one of the US sellers of the Lelit have a version coming out with a ball jointed steam wand next month?.

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                        • #42
                          Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                          Steaming milk with the Saeco nozzle...
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q6QHx5JPzM


                          And while Im making a post, I think I need, or maybe just want a better grinder, the Sunbeam Cafe series is getting on my nerves, static constantly alters the dose, and Im getting sick of how much coffee is retained in the chute, almost think it not giving me the best I can get out of the machine either.

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                          • #43
                            Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                            Weird, was not expecting to have to temp surf on the Lelit, but I find myself doing it anyway...

                            I think more than anything, when your trying to get consistency in a shot, you find the temperature swings throwing off your extractions.

                            Your just looking for that repeatable zone in the boiler cycle, and right now for me, its wait the 12-20mins for the machine to stabilize enough...

                            (seriously that is where it seems to work, 12min and its ok, 15mins and your generally good, 20mins+ and I think its close to most stable)

                            Then you want to purge some water till the light goes off, and boiler comes on, wait for the light to come on and hence boiler to cycle off again, then do a little quick flick purge, then do your shot.
                            Since I started doing this, repeating a consistent shot has become a lot easier.

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                            • #44
                              Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                              Originally posted by 6A75776D7461767760180 link=1289144599/19#19 date=1301785675
                              Just remember with the Lelit you have two choices in the same models - buttons or switches - different vendors stock different ones. Ive got the one with buttons, and personally would prefer switches after 6 months of use (would make it easier to prime the boiler)

                              Also, the pressure gauge is pointless as far as Im concerned. I looked at it to start with, and realised it only told you if youd choked the shot or not - essentially something that your investigative skills should be telling you when nothing is coming through the basket.

                              Also remember since this thread was started, the Silvia has come down in cost quite a bit (Id probably still go the Lelit, but thats just because Ive learned to love her ).
                              I am considering buying a Lelit.  I already have an EM0480 grinder (which Im aware isnt crash hot - thanks to other threads on the topic  ).  With regard to the different models (without a grinder) there are the PL041E, PL041EM, and the PL041TEM.

                              I was wondering if others think (as RichardM indicates) that the gauge is useless?  Is that the main advantage of the PL041EM over the PL041E?

                              Also, is it worth forking out the extra dollars for the TEM?

                              This is for home use only. Thanks for your help.

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                              • #45
                                Re: EM6910 vs Lelit PL041 - Time for a new machine...

                                Originally posted by 424D574B4F50230 link=1289144599/43#43 date=1313933646
                                I am considering buying a Lelit.  I already have an EM0480 grinder (which Im aware isnt crash hot - thanks to other threads on the topic  ).  With regard to the different models (without a grinder) there are the PL041E, PL041EM, and the PL041TEM.

                                I was wondering if others think (as RichardM indicates) that the gauge is useless?  Is that the main advantage of the PL041EM over the PL041E?

                                Also, is it worth forking out the extra dollars for the TEM?

                                This is for home use only.  Thanks for your help.

                                Hi anthls and welcome to coffeesnobs.

                                The gauge shows you brew pressure. I can think of 3 scenarios when you would refer to it.
                                1. Backflushing - when it maxes out its time to turn the pump off (but you could listen for this too because the pump gets quieter when it is under load)
                                2. extraction quality (but you can watch the extraction instead)
                                3. something goes wrong and you suspect the machine isnt delivering enough pressure - no workaround I can think of except for getting your hands a portafilter pressure gauge which most people wont have at home. The most likely scenario here is that you dont get any coffee coming through even though you are sure youve ground coarse enough. Without the gauge, you suspect the pump isnt delivery full pressure but you wont know for sure ...

                                The pressure gauge is a bit like one of those gauges on your car dashboard that you dont need in order to drive the car, but might come in handy when something isnt going the way you thought it should ...

                                The main difference with the PL41TEM is that it adds a PID temperature controller which makes the brew water temperature more stable than on the other models. It also gives you the ability to change the brew water temperature so that you can experiment.

                                charlie

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