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  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    As per another post....

    Agents have seen blocked Steam Blocks BUT elements failed = VERY RARE.

    The symptom described "not setting itself" ALL lights flashing is due to teh system thinking that either teh Group OR Steam block is not to temp...

    The most common fault in older units is with those Thermostats... Yep that little can etc with the two tabs. Also if intermittent, then even more likely to be the thermostat.

    Get ya local electrician to replace !!!!! Group is 110C and Steam is 200C

    DO not remove teh cover or do any work on your machine if your not Qualified.

    Gary from Gala is OK as he has a Rel with a Special body type ;D (Photoshop is not a core app).

    Take care all

    AM

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Originally posted by 0B191311580 link=1292624539/38#38 date=1296349176
    Gary, the $95 was the part price for the thermoblock. Replaced mine and all seemed OK, but then I just might have got lucky, not knowing what the real problem was. It might have been loose wiring, and when I connected everything up it worked. I wasnt going to take everything apart again just to see if the old thermoblock is alright. What I can not come to terms with ii the cost of consumer replaceable parts {eg. anti-calc cartridge $30+. group-head seal $30+, filter basket $22+ and so on} as against what appear to be more intricate non serviceable parts (eg. PCB&wiring $69, Steam thermobloccl $95, Collar $58 etc.).
    Yea, the pricing appears all wrong in the first instance...

    However if like many in the white good area... Consumables are expected to be bought and used by users and teh Hardware only by Service agents.

    Thus one could assume that if hardware was cheep enough then Service and Repairs would also be cheep - SHOULD they ever be needed. However we all know it does not work that way.

    Originally posted by 2C2D2A39363C37580 link=1292624539/39#39 date=1296370300
    AM Im in Melbourne. Is the thermostat hard to change? I wouldnt mind doing it if it doesnt involve a huge amount of disassembling.
    The steam Thermostat is easy to get at and to change... The Main group Thermostat is ON top of teh head and thus requires the machine to have teh lid off.

    The thermistor is the temp sensor that is used to feedback to the brain.

    An electrician should always be involved or check the unit as to electrical safety before attempting to power teh system up.
    Originally posted by 2B313C3D2F39212B2B580 link=1292624539/37#37 date=1296320947
    To me, i can get attached to something when it has been with me for some time, temperemental or not.

    Bottom line though, you want to enjoy making coffee, not waste time toying with it or fixing it.

    AM and I, we go through these processes of elimination and detective work in order to help the next person with their machine if they happen to have a problem with it and is willing to have a go at fixing it.

    SO TRUE...

    Leave a comment:


  • turando
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    AM Im in Melbourne. Is the thermostat hard to change? I wouldnt mind doing it if it doesnt involve a huge amount of disassembling.

    Leave a comment:


  • SAKI
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Gary, the $95 was the part price for the thermoblock. Replaced mine and all seemed OK, but then I just might have got lucky, not knowing what the real problem was. It might have been loose wiring, and when I connected everything up it worked. I wasnt going to take everything apart again just to see if the old thermoblock is alright. What I can not come to terms with ii the cost of consumer replaceable parts {eg. anti-calc cartridge $30+. group-head seal $30+, filter basket $22+ and so on} as against what appear to be more intricate non serviceable parts (eg. PCB&wiring $69, Steam thermobloccl $95, Collar $58 etc.).

    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Gee. Thanks a million AM. Ill take you up on the offer.

    Will let you know when it dies again which thermostat is responsible.

    Is the thermistor the same as a thermostat? Where is the thermostat located if its not the thermistor?


    Turando, I hear your pain. When it comes to the stage when it costs a third or more of the value of the machine to fix, you have to wonder if its all worth it.

    To me, i can get attached to something when it has been with me for some time, temperemental or not.

    Bottom line though, you want to enjoy making coffee, not waste time toying with it or fixing it.

    AM and I, we go through these processes of elimination and detective work in order to help the next person with their machine if they happen to have a problem with it and is willing to have a go at fixing it.

    When i get to the bottom of it eventually, theres a sense of achievement, and im sure it gives AM a good feeling when he shares his knowledge for the good of others.

    Gary at G

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Originally posted by 6E6F687B747E751A0 link=1292624539/35#35 date=1296301082
    Havent taken my machine in yet - my husband will need to drop it off after work on Monday hopefully. But I was thinking maybe my fault happened when I did the settings to increase the temperature of the water, steam, wetness. I put them all on the highest settings. Im thinking maybe it stuffed up the temperature thing?

    My husband is thinking to change machines now. Its probably going to cost another at least $150 and we just spent $200 getting the collar and seal fixed. Quite depressing!
    Not ya fault...

    What is your location ?

    If it is teh thermostat, then a $18 part and the issue of changing to the higest does suggest that if the thermostat was on the border line. Then this could do it...

    AM

    Leave a comment:


  • turando
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Havent taken my machine in yet - my husband will need to drop it off after work on Monday hopefully. But I was thinking maybe my fault happened when I did the settings to increase the temperature of the water, steam, wetness. I put them all on the highest settings. Im thinking maybe it stuffed up the temperature thing?

    My husband is thinking to change machines now. Its probably going to cost another at least $150 and we just spent $200 getting the collar and seal fixed. Quite depressing!

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Originally posted by 203A373624322A2020530 link=1292624539/33#33 date=1296285836
    BTW. sexy shots of belly and shorts belong to stepfather. He is a qualified electrician working for BHP Billiton.

    Hes just not familiar with the innards of a coffee machine but he did recognize electrical components.

    As for me, i have a clause to my contract that says i will not expose more than my hands and arms until available in full for the Coffeesnobs Corner of Beanscene Magazine  
    ROFLMAO... YEA right... Sound great !!!!! Cheque is in teh Mail ???


    Ok... With what you said, and am even more inclined to think THERMOSTAT...

    Confirm if it is teh Group or Steam and I have one or two sitting around...

    Thus I can send you a replacement to get you working and to confirm - Send Snail mail addy ASAP via PM...

    PS. As to CS corner... Until the fees and STAR status, go up a bit, I am continuing to ignore the begging and pleas ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Hee hee. This was all done with machine off and the machine faulty prior to tests done. Each wire was unplugged then tested for resistance then re-plugged, one at a time.

    Then when i turned machine on just for the heck of it, i noticed both group and steam was hot.

    All tests done indoors. Just so happens it is raining buckets outside now

    BTW. sexy shots of belly and shorts belong to stepfather. He is a qualified electrician working for BHP Billiton.

    Hes just not familiar with the innards of a coffee machine but he did recognize electrical components.

    As for me, i have a clause to my contract that says i will not expose more than my hands and arms until available in full for the Coffeesnobs Corner of Beanscene Magazine ;D

    Gary at G

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Errr   oooooo   Could we have the travel sick bag up to QLD please ASAP ;D


    Interesting Shorts and !!!!!!!

    Lets hope this was not all done in the out house  

    5 Senses are correct.  With out a hard fault you could replace every thing and still miss it.

    When it next failes again... Measure ASAP and see what changes..

    My gut feel is that it is the Thermostat....

    Main Group is a 110C and teh Steam is 200C. If these happen to go open and do not reset for some reason. And then after sitting and getting cool or a bit of a knock it resets. That would explain it... They also have an interesting rivet construction and that could also be part of the problem...

    I will try to send Pics  ( No shorts or belly)  in the next day or two.   I have an 18th on tonight and then allowed to visit a special correctional centre. Thus you get a back seat.

    AM

    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Just want to be sure, the black box is the solenoid?

    Not sure what the red box is, is it part of the pump for the brew dept?

    And the blue box below closer to steam thermoblock, is it to do with the steam function?







    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Thanks for waiting gentlemen

    Here are more tests i did.

    You talked about the situation being intermittent AM, i turned the thing on to see if it was heating up. Turned out it went back to normal, ie. Power light flashed, then all lights on, not blinking. Brew block felt damn hot. Thermoblock felt damn hot.
    If this situation is an intermittent problem, it may be all is well now, but may and will re-surface in the near future.

    When i rang service at Five Senses when it reared its ugly head again, he said its an intermittent problem. Cant fix it if unable to trace blame of source if its working well.

    As promised, heres more pics with the multimeter, and im sure you will comment and advice AM. Thanks again.

    Here is a list of results from resistance reading on the DMM logger:

    Group element 47.30 ohm
    Steam element 51.00ohm
    Solenoid test 2.236 kohm
    Red box thing (pump for brew??) .100ohm
    Brew thermistor 87kohm
    Steam thermistor 91.00kohm

    Pics as follows:









    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Originally posted by 7E646D667C677D0E0 link=1292624539/28#28 date=1296268843
    Can I add that it could still be the thermoblock as the heating element could be cracked/broken internally in such a way that when cool it measures OK but as the thermoblock expands when heating up it goes open circuit.

    It could also be the same type of fault in the crimped connectors on the ends of the wires attaching to the thermoblock.

    Either of these could well cause an intermittent fault as the wires/elements would shift ever so slightly every use due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration (From the pump).

    Peter

    Heating elements usually fail in a much more hard core manner... As to the terminals... Always a possibility but rest assured if intermittent it is more likely to be in teh board rather than the element or connectors.

    However only a critical review and test will determine the real cause. In teh mean time I have seen many get told rather interesting stories that often astound me.. 30 years in teh Electronics field... Some times it is a case of Generalisation by a repair person and other times it is a big bow they were pulling...

    Still waiting for Gary @ G to get back to us...

    Leave a comment:


  • pjchris
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Can I add that it could still be the thermoblock as the heating element could be cracked/broken internally in such a way that when cool it measures OK but as the thermoblock expands when heating up it goes open circuit.

    It could also be the same type of fault in the crimped connectors on the ends of the wires attaching to the thermoblock.

    Either of these could well cause an intermittent fault as the wires/elements would shift ever so slightly every use due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration (From the pump).

    Peter

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: EM6910 not setting itself

    Originally posted by 302A272634223A3030430 link=1292624539/26#26 date=1296196466
    Have opened it up, tested the resistance using the Coffeesnobs DMM logger (knew it would come in handy somewhere else).

    Steam thermoblock terminal to heat element: 51.00 ohm

    Brew thermoblock terminal to heat element: 47.30 ohm

    Solenoid: 2.236 Kilo ohm

    A bit worried about the solenoid, sounds a bit high.
    Im not electrically minded, so hopefully someone else can comment on these results.
    Can post pics if required.

    Gary at G.
    Post pics and I will do some testing and report back.

    Check the Steam and BREW block temp thermistor !  At room temp they should be about  85K ohm

    If I remember correctly you can do a Single measurement and it will take into account the Heating element and the thermal fuse etc so that your sure there is a  true cct and you not confusing your self.  

    This is between one side of the Solenoid and from either of the two wires that are soldered onto the SUB board.  One wire is steam and the other is Head.

    I got 47 ohm for steam and 54 ohm for Group... This minor differenced is not an issue.

    Thus it could be;

    A: The board is stuffed - The bigwarehouse have them for $70

    B: Thermistor is playing up and not seeing that it has reached temp?

    C: The THEMOSTAT is playing up and not letting it get to the right temp but is measuring OK at  room temp when when you do the test I described.  From the same place ss above $18

    So the trick is to confirm what is getting hot and what is not and then you can focus on the right path.

    Much of all this can be done with the unit disconnected  and removed from any Electrical power supply OR without having to pull electrical connections apart etc.


    If and When it comes down to a live test: That is for an Electrician and no one else.....





    Leave a comment:

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