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  • #16
    Re: Breville Dual Boiler

    The design and thought behind the machine sounds excellent. Some people, like me were disappointed in the price point as its out of the current coffee machine budget, no matter how good it is.

    Given the track record of western designed, Chinese built products some of us have what appears to be a legitimate  worry about quality control issues. Dare I say that poor steam in a small run of pre production models raises some concerns. If there can be problems in quality control of a gasket when the numbers are small enough to individually cheek each item before they are shipped, what does that say about large prduction runs? A significant number of the smart grinders have required shims. An easy fix, yes - but again it raises worries about quality control in a well designed product.

    Ive been bitten before by quality control issues with otherwise well thought out things from well known makers(Apple and Canon to name two). So I feel quite justified and comfortable both wishing for this product to be the hit that Breville and others think its going to be, while also giving it a year to six months before I consider buying one, both so I can save up for it, and see how the early adopters find things. Hopefully it willbethe machine that its promoters think it is and I will end up owning one.

    Dismissing such opininons as "talking the machine down" is I think unfair.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Breville Dual Boiler

      Just to confirm, the quality of steam on the PP unit wasnt something that slipped through and had nothing to do with a gasket. I was there for the pilot run and subsequent QC process. As this build is part of the development process and not final production, there were known issues at this point and there always is. I cant remember another time when Breville allowed PP units out for public inspection....maybe it was a mistake.

      Please check out a unit from mass production and see what you think of the steam quality....hopefully it doesnt disappoint

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Breville Dual Boiler

        If you haven’t had a chance to put your hands on a machine or get a good look at a Breville Dual Boiler yet, here are some things we have been told about it.

        This is not an official Breville document and the specifications are not complete.

        This is not a review, just a list of what we have been told is in the BDB.

        I have put it here to give readers a better chance to make an objective comparison with other machines.

        This is what you would find if you could look under the bonnet or give it a trial run.


        The heat up time from switch on is about 7 minutes.

        Brew boiler is 300ml 600W, PID temp controlled. With 15 bar vibe pump controlled to 9 bar.

        Steam boiler is 950ml, 1000W, thermister controlled. Half full of water, half steam. 3 bar vibe pump. Auto refill. Steaming control is by a leaver and a ball valve.

        Both boilers are stainless steel.

        Both pumps are made in Italy as are some valves and other parts.

        Heat exchanger in steam boiler feeds the brew boiler with about 80 deg water to reduce thermal shock.

        Grouphead is actively heated. Element is 100W, temp controlled by a second PID.

        Group head is die-cast aluminium with cast-in heating element. cast-in stainless steel tubing for the water paths through the group. Where water can contact the alloy, it has been Teflon coated.   

        Full 58mm filter basket sized portafilter.
        Portafilter is cast stainless steel polished inside and out.
        Bayonet ramps inside the group head have Nylon inserts to stop galling or adhesive wear.

        The temperature control used has allowed the use of smaller boilers and gives shorter warm up time than usual.
         
        Extraction temp is programmable in 1 deg C increments between 88 & 95. Stable to within 1 deg. Current group temperature can be monitored on the readout screen.

        Each machine is scaced at the factory to check temperatures.

        Pressure gauge with Bar 0 to 13.

        The boilers cannot run dry. A sensor will cause them to be automatically filled. If the main water tank is about to run dry, the machine will let you finish your current activity and then close down.

        There is a very obvious visual water gauge centre front, behind the group.

        When the drip tray is about full, a very obvious yellow flag floats up.

        Hot water comes from the brew boiler. Control knob on left switches on tap and pump. The short hot water spout is between the steam wand and the group.

        Internal clock can turn on the machine and time brewing and steaming.

        Water tank, removable 2.4 litres capacity can be filled from front or back.
        Retractable wheels help to rotate the machine for rear access to the water tank.

        Power cord storage is built in.

        A tamper is supplied that is held into the machine by a magnet, like the 860.

        Water filter supplied is an ion exchange resin filter for scale prevention. If chlorine etc. is of concern then use additional water treatment.

        Readout screen on front of the machine shows settings, times, temp, etc.

        During testing, Breville simulated an average 10 year use of brewing 15,000 cappuccinos with this machine.

        The outside case has a classic Breville design a little larger than the BES860. It is brushed stainless steel with curved edges over a hard plastic frame.

        The machine measures 385mm front to back along the base of the machine, and is 375mm wide in front, tapering to 330mm wide at the back. Height is 380 mm.
        Empty weight is 13 kg.

        Pre-release offer is promised for early June.

        It should be available in mid July.

        Recommended price $1,500.

        If you find any errors here please let us know here.

        Barry

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Breville Dual Boiler

          Originally posted by 1716435252260 link=1306475432/12#12 date=1306619503
          I am disgusted how everybody continues to talk down this machine. Why cant people just wait until it is out before making their judgement on it.
          800+ posts on the other thread and only a very few could be considered talking the machine down. For every post that could be percieved as negative, there are another 10 posts that quiclky dismiss or counter-argue the other. It seems that there is more talk against those talking down, then there are actually people talking down. Most of the issues raised were legitimate and could harldy be called talking down. Actuall talking down is very limited and has been blown out of porportion. Hell, there is even a Toyota/Ferrari comparison, need I say more.

          Most are looking foward to seeing this machine hit the market, because aside from maybe asthetics and a proven history of reliablity, its in category of its own.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Breville Dual Boiler

            Originally posted by 4F727676621B0 link=1306475432/18#18 date=1306646723
            Hell, there is even a Toyota/Ferrari comparison
            Im thinking that the BDB may become the Lexus of coffee machines.

            Barry

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Breville Dual Boiler

              Originally posted by 7C494443776B474E4E4D4D280 link=1306475432/13#13 date=1306620628
              Too right 10ett. Many who talk it down havent even seen it, let alone used it. Many of them have a completely different and irrelevant agenda- which sadly has nothing to do with the machine. Small things- as they say .

              As for the review, Mark Prince knows his stuff- and then some. His body of work on the Dual Boiler represents many hours and any susbsequent review could only reinvent the wheel. His review is full of positives and having spent quite a few hours with the machine now, I can only endorse it.
              I have to lay some cards on the table here - Im an engineer - and I dont give a rats whose name is on a piece of kit. If it works, it works.

              The machine at beanology was damn near faultless - even the steam. I did a couple of jugs of milk and I cant see what the whinging about slow steam is about. Coming from a Silvia, the steam is quick. Coming from our 2 group Wega in the T-room, it is a bit slower. But the microfoam was perfect.

              The temperature stability seemed perfect too. Id love to stick my homemade "scace" work-alike on it just to see... Chris - do you have a temperature profile for it (I assume you have something for measuring shot temps..). Just curious! But I think itll end up a very nice flat graph at about 92.5C or whatever the temperature is set to!

              I suspect the BDB will suffer from a certain level of snobbish indifference because it isnt made in Italy

              /Kevin

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                Originally posted by 19181F520 link=1306475432/20#20 date=1306657662
                I suspect the BDB will suffer from a certain level of snobbish indifference because it isnt made in Italy 

                /Kevin
                Not from this kid either Kevin....

                I too appreciate the detailed engineering that has realised the culmination of this machine. There may well be some production line bugs to knock out of the first few machines produced but the overall design and implementation looks spot-on to me.... 8-)

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                  Geez havent I been saying from early on that the other half of me being an engineer has said that Breville has done a bloody good job, oh sorry Im only a pleb so of course our opinion isnt worth anything, besides the fact that in the last year he has been head hunted at least five times!

                  I guess I shouldnt grumble, after all WE were the ones that were offered a direct invitation from Breville to see the Dual Boiler for ourselves and for that I am so thankful

                  The bottom line, yes there is a lot to learn from people that have been an industry for a long time BUT you shouldnt discount newbies as you never know what and who they are!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                    I agree shapeshifter.

                    I worked for a full day and then crammed in a return flight (almost missed the one home ;D).

                    It was great to meet some respected CSers and old friends there and to to meet and congratulate the Breville team.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                      I dont think many people on the other thread have talked the machine down. Someone here on this thread has used a quote from one of my posts suggesting that i am one talking it down. This is not correct i simply stated that i wasnt buying the Duel Boiler and stated my reasons why. I simply didnt want to be an early adopter and to me the look of the machine didnt go well with my new kitchen. I look forward to reading further when this machine is released to the public and hope it gives many years of very happy service to anyone who buys one.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                        Originally posted by 0722272B1916342335322928460 link=1306475432/16#16 date=1306632136
                        I cant remember another time when Breville allowed PP units out for public inspection....maybe it was a mistake.

                        Please check out a unit from mass production and see what you think of the steam quality....hopefully it doesnt disappoint
                        Hi Adam,

                        I dont think it was a mistake at all. From what I can see, this has been one gutsy project and this was just another example of the confidence of the team in a great product.

                        After a full week in the wild, those who have sampled or used the machine have been overwhelmingly positive.

                        At the shed yesterday, I had the option of pulling shots on the pimped Faema e-61, Izzo Pompeii or the Breville. I used the Breville all day and it held its own. There was not a single negative from those who sampled the coffee and we now have a number of clients who were looking for their first machine or upgrading from a single boiler machine who have decided to wait for a month. I think they are making a very wise decision.

                        As always, its about buying the right machine. The Dual Boiler will be the right machine for many.

                        Chris

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                          I also havent inferred too much talking down from any posts in either thread. Ive seen legitimate concerns aired and answered. Anyone who has the time or energy to feel disgusted with the tone of posts, or feels the need to spend time and energy jumping to the defense of a machine that isnt even for sale yet... I envy you! I would like from this thread more pictures, more shots of shots and more info from the lucky few whove used the thing.

                          E61s Shuttle didnt get this sort of attention and yet that little expedition into a Site Sponsor having a new Chinese made machine wasnt without controversy. Why is this machine release so different? Sit back folks and enjoy the ride. Positive or negative posts are irrelevant for the time being because none of us can toddle down to Myer/HN and seek the truth. Theres a phrase Ill go to Hell for...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                            Originally posted by 445F564752445F5E51435245370 link=1306475432/22#22 date=1306661530
                            The bottom line, yes there is a lot to learn from people that have been an industry for a long time BUT you shouldnt discount newbies as you never know what and who they are!
                            I always look forward to your posts and responses to others shifter . It has always been obvious to me that you make contributions from a position of knowledge and therefore worth the time spent ensuring that I read them (your posts) properly.

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                              I must admit if it is as good as people suggest it will have the potential to change the game when it comes to coffee machines.

                              Certainly breville have the resources to make this work

                              I will need a change in circumstance before I will be buying one. :-[

                              Will breville ever make a 2 or 3 group machine?

                              I would think just the thought of it will make some manufactures of coffee machines uneasy.

                              Will Sunbeam come up with a credible reply?

                              Only if they think they can make money from it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Breville Dual Boiler

                                Thank you Mal

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