Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[snypa762]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Well after doing a fair bit of reading, I finally made my first decent shot. ( Excluding milk frothing )

I found out that by tuning the grinder 4 bars from the right of Fine, and by adding one extra bar to the "amount" gave me the perfect dose for a one shot.

I tamped it down pretty firm as well.
Once extracting began, the coffee began pouring out 11 seconds into the shot. The pressure gauge remained at a 10 bar solid throughout and total extraction time was 27 seconds.

Im very happy with this. The espresso was beautiful in texture.

I also found out that my coffee was not hot enough because of the milk temperature.

I just need to practice on the frothing now :-)

Im very happy with this machine.

[DavidW1960]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Yep. If the shot pours too fast, you need to grind finer - not courser. Also make sure you have a proper dose - PF full before you tamp - around 14g of coffee.

Those oily beans are oily because they are stale. Fresh beans will act totally differently.

[cyberhuey]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Yep. If the shot pours too fast, you need to grind finer - not courser. Also make sure you have a proper dose - PF full before you tamp - around 14g of coffee.Those oily beans are oily because they are stale. Fresh beans will act totally differently.

+1

Incidentally i found an earlier post on this thread that pointed to this http://www.espressocompany.com.au/how-to.htm

I just watched the Scotty Callaghan videos and making expresso, adjusting grind and getting the pour right, this is one excellent video imo (hmm i love the look of that Rocket Giotto but for the price wouldnt have been kind to my hip pocket at the present time, perhaps something to look at next time im in the market for something that expensive..)

In any case the BES900 seems to be working well.... 

[darwingrup]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Loving our new BES 900, have only had for 2 weeks so perhaps not enough time to see the cracks, but 2 yr warranty is reassuring.  This is our first coffee machine and although expensive I think it is worth the $$
Something to note for interested buyers...our machine arrived before our grinder and so we used commercial ground coffee for the first week - TERRIBLE, not the coffee, which tasted just fine, but the coffee splattered all over the place out of the portafilter.  Spoke to Breville coffee guy (who has been really helpful) and he said THIS MACHINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE USED WITH COMMERCIAL COFFEE GRINDS...THEY ARE NOT GROUND FINE ENOUGH AS THEY HAVE TO SATISFY A WIDE MARKET OF PERCOLATORS ETC.  Yes, why did I spend 1200 on a coffee machine and think I should put commercial beans in it - good question?
Otherwise, really love the machine.  Looks good, GREAT utility (tamper has a home out of the way, tool box behind dripper tray for odds and ends, easy/quick warm up, great milk frothing, good warming plate, easy to fill water tank and to see level - water tank overflows into drip tray...clever!). 
The coffee is pretty damn nice each time...we are really just tweaking the last 5% to our own taste.  I cannot honestly fault this machine other than the comment made above and now I am drinking much more coffee and I cannot go to a cafe....I used to drink a lot of cafe coffee of variable degress of bitterness and to mask this I added sugar.  In my home coffee I dont add sugar...not required, good Stuff!

[DavidW1960]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

You can actually use pre ground coffee BTW - thats what the dual wall baskets are for. But of course you should freshly grind fresh beans for the best results.

[Thirteen13]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

the smart grinder is misleading in its settings, Amount at 0 on 1 cup isnt exactly 1 shot as all beans vary.
Just set the grinder to what works.

Also for tamoping i know people say you have to use X and Y pressure, i personally just use the stock tamp and use it to just square and flatten off the coffee grinds

[peter.wake]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

the smart grinder is misleading in its settings, Amount at 0 on 1 cup isnt exactly 1 shot as all beans vary.
Just set the grinder to what works.

The Smart Grinder is not so much misleading in its settings as totally arbitrary. A lot of people post information about what setting they used on their Smart Grinder as if it meant anything. It does not. Details on what SG settings used are practically useless because no two Smart Grinders are set up identically. Even a single SG is not necessarily consistent over time. All we can learn from it is whether your SG needs shimming because you are out of adjustment range.

What we really need to know is what happens with the SG cranked up to finest. If that is too fine then the grinder is ok. Tamp firmly and dial it back until extraction is actually pushing coffee through in a proper stream, not drips or dribbles. The resolution of the SG adjustment is such (so coarse) that once you hit this point you probably cant go more than one or two stops coarser before you get gushers. Move the grinder half a stop more to coarse, and see if that tastes better. Move it a whole stop and you might get a gusher, try it and see.

Also, use fresh coffee. If it came from the supermarket, it is highly unlikely to be even remotely fresh. Getting good results from dry, stale coffee is hard/impossible. Many posts on here complain they cant get their new machine and grinder to work with some (stale) supermarket beans. That is because they are stale supermarket beans. You will never get a good-looking extraction from them without using a dual-floor basket. You will never get a good-tasting extraction from them period. If you are putting milk in the coffee, it may be drinkable but flat tasting. If you are drinking it as espresso shots, it will be wretched.

An obvious feature of the Smart Grinder is that they seem to have pretty inconsistent set-up at manufacture, and many samples also have considerable drift due to wear-in when you start using them.

While they are set up in the factory to produce some sort of grind in the right ballpark, it is obvious that Breville are making no attempt to make SG settings particularly uniform across different machines - in fact I doubt they could do this even if they wanted - due to the way the behaviour of these machines changes as you run them in.

My SG worked perfectly out of the box, but within a couple of weeks it needed a lot of shims put in to it because it had worn in. Since then it has seen weeks more use and hasnt changed observably. How can I compare the settings on my SG to somebody elses? Its simple: I cant.

I think the bottom line here is that the SG is a budget grinder compared to something like a Mazzer and the bearings and burr positioning mechanism are nowhere near the best materials, best design, or best manufacture. A lot of these grinders do not work correctly out of the box and need shimming, and others stop working properly quite quickly and need shimming. Once you have shimmed them to your satisfaction you can get decent results but you can never compare your grind settings to anybody elses. I also have grave doubts that my SG will last very long before it needs shimming again, or simply dies.

I just do not have great expectations of the longevity of my Smart Grinder. If anything it is mechanically less well made than the Sunbeams and the extra features are of dubious value at best. The attempt to adjust timing based on grind only confuses things and makes it harder to adjust rather than easier. The timer settings are too coarse, the grind adjustment resolution is too coarse, the one/two shot feature is completely useless/broken, and the mechanical design is probably flawed because if it were right they could set these things up in the factory reliably and they would stay set up for the design lifespan of a set of burrs.

This is not to say theres no reason to buy a Smart Grinder: they are sold at a price point, and if thats what you can (or want to) afford you really only have the SG and the Sunbeam to choose from, and overall the SG is better than the Sunbeams. Set up right, the SG grind is better than a Sunbeam.

[DavidW1960]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

2 year replacement warranty by Breville indicates they think they will last ok. A bit pessimistic post Bean.

[duffybeers@hotmail]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

But a fair one IMO. I am on my second smart grinder and as soon as I have the $$ i will be upgrading. IMO It is not the amazing grinder that people seem to think it is. On the finer settings on BOTH of the ones I have had the burrs rub, the grinds clump, and I cannot get a decent shot.

The grind was decent on coarser settings and my old machine (brasila club) had some great results with this grinder. However I find that the BES900 needs a quality finer grind that this grinder struggles to give. I wish I had the cash now to replace it.

[peter.wake]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

2 year replacement warranty by Breville indicates they think they will last ok. A bit pessimistic post Bean.

Pessimistic? I think I was fair about the reasons to get a SG. It is not terrible value for money, but its not a great match for the BES900 in terms of build quality or actual performance.

Im undecided whether I will see how much use I can get from the SG or upgrade sooner, but the adjustment resolution is not what I was hoping for.

Its likely that Breville have done their sums and worked out that a lot of people who buy a SG wont use it that much, and the minority that do and wear it out within a year are a cost they can afford to bear - particularly as many of those people arent even going to bother pursuing the guarantee because they want a working grinder right away.

At the higher price I thought the SG would be a significantly better grinder than the Sunbeams are, but its not, it offers only marginal improvements over them: less messy, nicer bean hopper features, marginally better grind, and slightly better adjustment resolution - at the cost of a larger footprint. It offers some other features too, but they are of questionable value. Moreover, the Sunbeam shipped set up right and stayed set up right. The Breville did not. Few things dissatisfy quite as effectively as a product that stops working properly after a couple of weeks.

[cyberhuey]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Its likely that Breville have done their sums and worked out that a lot of people who buy a SG wont use it that much, and the minority that do and wear it out within a year are a cost they can afford to bear - particularly as many of those people arent even going to bother pursuing the guarantee because they want a working grinder right away.

Even if this was the case, if it was me, and i had to purchase a new one like a Mazzer or Anfim to replace the SG because it stuffed up (wore out prematurely), i would definitely pursue the warranty and im a stickler for that and keep the replacement/\/repair as a spare.......

Having said that, would the burr set be replaceable under warranty due to wear and tear? One would think a 2 year warranty should be a life span of it at least under normal consumer use (not commercial use @ serveral hundred coffees per day) but if you are drinking say 2 - 3 a day (weekends sometimes more) thats at least 1000 coffees a year.

Perhaps Phil M might know the expected life span of the conical burrs from testing....

As for the finess grinds, i havent hit the upper edge on my SG and ive had it 3 days so far, the setting is about 1/2 way on the dial (under the first E for Espresso) so this will be interesting if the Shim kit will be required in the future, only time will tell, but compared to others mentioning in the SG thread under grinders they have either 1149 or 1201 series requiring shim kits, mine is 1214 so maybe theyve fixed the issue... Will report in the next couple of months i guess if it changes...

As for good value for money, if i had to pay the RRP which i never do anymore for anything electrical given the current market, i wouldve def opted to pay a bit more for a Anfim or Mazzer Mini (okay a little bit more to double) but would expect it to last years. But @ $175 i paid from HN its a bit more reasonable price and expect it to last me 2 years at least before any work needs to be done to it service wise.

[cyberhuey]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

DavidW1960,

i dropped by Coffee Espresso today @ West Gosford, picked up a Tamping Mat, Tamper, Blind, 18g basket (not VST and dont think its Synesso theres no markings on the basket, they said its what they supply with commercial machines to the cafes) which i think is heaps better than the Breville basket, water seems to flow through it a tad easier if i just fill the basket up with water under the tap than the breville basket did.

Pulled a shot on it came up nice, 30sec including pre-infusion... Where as i was all over the place with the std dbl shot single wall basket and std tamper that came with the machine...

Incidentally, the West Gos mob are heaps dear on their machines eg Vibiemme Domobar Jnr or Rocket Giotto Premium, i know where ill be buying my next one from one of the CS sponsors Sydney and save the cash to go to a better grinder......

Are there any other coffee accessory or machine suppliers on the coast without having to go to sydney? If im in the market for a machine id def drive to sydney and buy it for cheaper, but when you are only looking at a few dollars difference for bits and pieces and the cost of fuel, i like to browse up here and Domayne /\/ HN dont cut it for me when it comes to accessories.

I picked up a set 4 incasa Cappucino Cups with Saucers in Red/\/White, wife loves them @ $15 for the set i thought was a great price... :

[Thirteen13]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

ive seen comparison and the Breville baskets are very good for stock hence why i wont bother with upgrade to any other because the uniformity on the holes seems very good its just spending money for barely any gain, if any at all.
It could pour better but i am yet to see anything that makes me wnat to spend XX to get a better basket.

VST baskets have been compared to OEM Breville and the quality and finish is very similar. So unsure what you have Huey, but if OEM are ment to be as good as VST then im not forking out any money for the same product. As for tampers go, again i think OEM does the job, i dont get all picky and anal with XX amount of tamping pressure. I drop the grinds into the basket, tap them so they fall in and settle, then tamp so they are flat, even and packed firmly.Then shoot. Ive tried light tamps, heavy tamps and so long as its neat in there nicely, shots are good.

[DavidW1960]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Huey - yeah I think the evidence is that the Breville baskets are excellent. I only got the VST because it was more convenient doing a double shot that way. I normally use the single Breville basket. 2 pushes of my grinder button fills the VST with no wastage.

I have gotten accessories from that west gosford shop including the cups you got. Caesars also has that kind of stuff but they are just as expensive. Site sponsors have web sites and you can get all that kind of stuff from them. Its funny - I got my Saeco Magic Comfort from the west gosford shop - in that time - 10 years ago all they had were fully auto machines - now they have semi autos or manuals - shiny ones too - not a full auto to be seen. Funny how times change.

[cyberhuey]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Thanks guys for the responses, thats interesting, i can definitely say that the new basket @ $8 i got is giving me a more consistent shot where as with the breville basket i was all over the place, one min would be 30secs, next shot anything up to 60 secs.

The only other variable is the tamper, im finding that as it weighs 363gr as opposed to the breville one at 116gr might be the big factor as well, i found i was applying too much pressure with the breville one and with the new one as its much heavier, i just sit it on the grounds and apply a light pressure tamp. Now having said that this is what is probably the explainable scenario.

In any case $8 for a basket isnt much compared to the $38 VST, so im not concerned, but the newer basket seems to allow fluid to more freely flow than the breville basket did.