Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[argus]

?....I hope i get my machine back this week! Cafe Roma isnt really cutting it......

Amen to that, all I have is an old Bialetti stove top and it's not even close

[Thirteen13]

2 weeks without a machine now.... Should get it back this week.

[>mcknightp]

We're ready for Aroma Festival in Sydney at the Rocks this Sunday, how 'bout you????

[swamprat96]

wow! They look great in that colour! Nice work Phil.

[bukkie]

Will they be available to purchase in this colour soon?

[geekylucas]

Hi everyone, new BDB owner here. If anyone has time to answer some questions I would be super thankful.

1. I have been filling up the water tank with water from a Britta jug which I keep in the fridge. Should I do this? We use filtered water in the Domobar Super Lever at work - but this machine doesn't have water filters in the tank.
2. I've seen some forum posts from Phil where he explains his routine. He mentions that he does a couple of "seasoning shots". I presume he throws these away. Would most people recommend this approach? I get my beans from Seven Seeds at $48/kilo (250g at a time) so I guess each shot comes in at around $0.90. Doing 2 seasoning shots and then 1 consumable shot sounds a little pricey.
3. Regarding shot volume: The guys over at coffeegeek seem to recommend a 34g extraction from 18g of beans. My confusion is that this yields a shot that is well short of 60ml (which has always been my target on the domobar). I have been sticking the 60ml target to produce enough espresso for 2 cups. But I was wondering if someone could clarify the 34g of extraction thing.
4. In terms of beans what I've been doing is weighing 19g and throwing them into the hopper. Would you guys suggest this approach too inaccurate? The jewellery scales I have are small, but not small enough to fit on the base of my grinder, so weighing the ground beans is tricky. The other thing about weighing the grind is that you can't grind straight into the basket? You'd need to grind into a container first. Thoughts?
5. As above, I've been grinding 19g as 18g doesn't seem like enough. I've been using Phil's guide of trying to make the top of the tamper cap level with the top of the basket. Even at 19g it seems like it might not be enough. Is it correct to adjust the dose amount such that the tamper is where Phil recommends (at least while I'm getting to grips with this machine)?

FYI I tested my machine last night with a blind filter and it doesn't appear to require the OPV adjustment. Also the plastic insert was already removed from my portafilter. I'm using the stock baskets. EM0480 grinder. My post count isn't high enough to post links to the forum posts I'm talking about, sorry.

[swamprat96]

1. there are filters in the machine- check your water tank as thats where they pack them. However there's much debate whether a Brita filter works well enough
2. Maybe the best way but I dont. I simply run the grinder for a couple of secs- chuck that away and the shots are fine - once calibrated
3. Dunno
4. Sorry just rely on the breville smart grinder. I adjust to just under choking and use the tamper as a guide to dose
5. IMHO yes

[argus]

Welcome geekylucas,
1. I use both a Brita under sink filter system + the Breville in tank filter in the hope of extending the time before descaling is required.
2.
3.
4, 5. As far as weighing beans, I started off weighing beans into the hopper but came to the conclusion I was better off using the tamper cap as a guide to dose. From memory that ended up being ~ 21g for a double with my set up.
In the end let taste be your guide.

Still no word on my BDB repair after a week in the shop, maybe I'll have to go into the Rocks on Sunday to play with a pretty black one so I don't forget how to use it

[>mcknightp]

Hi everyone, new BDB owner here. If anyone has time to answer some questions I would be super thankful.

1. I have been filling up the water tank with water from a Britta jug which I keep in the fridge. Should I do this? We use filtered water in the Domobar Super Lever at work - but this machine doesn't have water filters in the tank.
2. I've seen some forum posts from Phil where he explains his routine. He mentions that he does a couple of "seasoning shots". I presume he throws these away. Would most people recommend this approach? I get my beans from Seven Seeds at $48/kilo (250g at a time) so I guess each shot comes in at around $0.90. Doing 2 seasoning shots and then 1 consumable shot sounds a little pricey.
3. Regarding shot volume: The guys over at coffeegeek seem to recommend a 34g extraction from 18g of beans. My confusion is that this yields a shot that is well short of 60ml (which has always been my target on the domobar). I have been sticking the 60ml target to produce enough espresso for 2 cups. But I was wondering if someone could clarify the 34g of extraction thing.
4. In terms of beans what I've been doing is weighing 19g and throwing them into the hopper. Would you guys suggest this approach too inaccurate? The jewellery scales I have are small, but not small enough to fit on the base of my grinder, so weighing the ground beans is tricky. The other thing about weighing the grind is that you can't grind straight into the basket? You'd need to grind into a container first. Thoughts?
5. As above, I've been grinding 19g as 18g doesn't seem like enough. I've been using Phil's guide of trying to make the top of the tamper cap level with the top of the basket. Even at 19g it seems like it might not be enough. Is it correct to adjust the dose amount such that the tamper is where Phil recommends (at least while I'm getting to grips with this machine)?

FYI I tested my machine last night with a blind filter and it doesn't appear to require the OPV adjustment. Also the plastic insert was already removed from my portafilter. I'm using the stock baskets. EM0480 grinder. My post count isn't high enough to post links to the forum posts I'm talking about, sorry.

1. Anything that cuts down scale but doesn't affect taste is a plus. I'm not sure adding Brita filtered water to a tank that contains a carbon/resin filter will help or not.

2. If you don't season, then you have espresso running over either metallic tasting surfaces or rancid coffee oils, you choose. In addition to coating all the surfaces with fresh coffee oils you also need to bring the PF & coffee basket up to optimal temp.

3. 34g does equate to approx 60ml of volume including crema. It's how a professional at the top of their game dials in grind/dose/volume so the espresso tastes to its full potential by using extracted weight. Dose weight/extraction weight and should be a specific ratio of the espresso you're trying to extract.

4. putting measured doses of coffee into a grinder & expecting to get a decent shot is not realistic. You get "bean bounce" where the beans are not fed or pushed into or between the grinding burrs with any constistency so you end up with a lot small particles & a lot of larger "chips". Put it all in the hopper, then empty it out & vac save it when you're done.

5. dose the amount that gives you the best taste. 19g is a good starting point, but don't be afraid to go up or down and taste the difference. I recommend you do the same with brew temperature. Ashy=too hot. Sour=too cold.

Cheers, Phil

[geekylucas]

Hi Phil, thanks for taking the time to respond. It's great to see a product rep so active on the forums.

1. Anything that cuts down scale but doesn't affect taste is a plus. I'm not sure adding Brita filtered water to a tank that contains a carbon/resin filter will help or not.

OK, this is good to know. I have seen you post a couple of things about the components in the machine requiring the water to have at least a certain amount of hardness. I didn't know if my Brita jug would affect this or not.

2. If you don't season, then you have espresso running over either metallic tasting surfaces or rancid coffee oils, you choose. In addition to coating all the surfaces with fresh coffee oils you also need to bring the PF & coffee basket up to optimal temp.

OK, I'm convinced. For the record I've been following your advice regarding heating up the portafilter & basket by running it under the hot water spout for 20 seconds. As well as doing purges from the group head. I think I may modify my routine to do 1 seasoning shot and then extend it to 2 when I have a good handle on all the other variables.

3. 34g does equate to approx 60ml of volume including crema. It's how a professional at the top of their game dials in grind/dose/volume so the espresso tastes to its full potential by using extracted weight. Dose weight/extraction weight and should be a specific ratio of the espresso you're trying to extract.

I'm not sure where I went wrong with the measurements on this one. Shooting for 60ml is easier (for me) so I guess I'll keep adjusting the dose until I get the ratio right.

4. putting measured doses of coffee into a grinder & expecting to get a decent shot is not realistic. You get "bean bounce" where the beans are not fed or pushed into or between the grinding burrs with any constistency so you end up with a lot small particles & a lot of larger "chips". Put it all in the hopper, then empty it out & vac save it when you're done.

OK, it sounds like I'll have to forgo the convenience of grinding directly into the basket for now and measure the post-grind dose in order to eliminate all the variables. No problems.

As an aside: I've been looking at the Breville Smart Grinder. It appears to allow you to program the grind time. How consistent is the dose size on this thing given that it measures by time & not weight?

5. dose the amount that gives you the best taste. 19g is a good starting point, but don't be afraid to go up or down and taste the difference. I recommend you do the same with brew temperature. Ashy=too hot. Sour=too cold.

OK great, thanks again for taking the time to respond.

[Thirteen13]

Got my machine back today. I must say, im happy to have it returned. Machine works, just tested for problems from before and no sign of any more issues. The women at the place told me "they where waiting on parts from Breville." Hence why it took 13 days to fix. Also the parts came from Sydney so add that time on too.

1 thing i was unhappy with, they tested the machine as noted on the receipt, however they left it full of coffee. Plus the reception lady seemed to give everyone the "i dont have any time for you" approach.

other than, Machine works, so for all you out there that are getting repaired machines coming back all broken, ensure you take it to the correct manufacter repair center.

[swamprat96]

So did they tell you what was wrong?

[geekylucas]

5. dose the amount that gives you the best taste. 19g is a good starting point, but don't be afraid to go up or down and taste the difference. I recommend you do the same with brew temperature. Ashy=too hot. Sour=too cold.

Regarding temps. I've been doing a bit of testing tonight. 19g/60ml. 93C was quite ashy. 94C was a bit better. Saw a massive improvement at 95C. I think I'll keep it there for a while whilst I work on the other variables. Looking forward to tomorrow morning's coffee.

[Thirteen13]

So did they tell you what was wrong?

nup, i wish they would. That women i mentioned was just all vague and trying to get me out the door so she could go back to facebook or watever she was doing. All the report says "Repaired fault, tested and working". It is improved so i assume they do something. I reckon all they did was seals and possibly a clean.

[water_dragon]

Unsure on the powerdown question, but rather why not just do a "clean cycle" once a week regardless ? Or perhaps once a fortnight? Just a thought

I was looking for the clean cycle that uses the cleaning tablet, will this be lost by powering off. I always turn it off at the wall as it takes no time to reach temp I dont bother setting the timer. Will this interfere with the memory regarding shots used to get to that "clean cycle"