Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[WiredArabica]

...I have developed a noticeable nervous twitch with every "bad news" BDB thread and find the coffee experience is now akin to riding my vintage Nortons.........I'm fully expecting the "prince of darkness" to strike!

Lol!
And yet, despite all the doom and gloom the machine actually performs pretty well for the majority of owners and it was great to have so much input in the forum from Breville in the earlier days.
I guess the nature of any forum that deals with one specific niche the tendency is to become very critical / analytical and I think it's all too easy when for instance comparing two machines to try and slot them into "better" & "worse" as opposed to maybe just different.

Although my coffee journey has evolved into something of a hobby, compared to many here it's a very pragmatic one basically borne of the necessity to get a good cup of coffee with as little effort as possible (I have a job and another hobby that requires significant attention to detail, I took up coffee as a relaxing hobby to enjoy); and the BDB is just easy to live with on a day to day basis (...that said, if I could afford a fancier machine I'd probably have one).
For all the toys I seem to have collected and though I play around with the variables for me it's all about what comes out the spout. I probably don't have the most sophisticated palette in the world but I know what I like and the only criteria I really use to judge the quality of the latest pour is: Did I like it? Yes=do another. No=what did I stuff up this time, do another. Not sure what kind of snob that makes me .

So Raymond - I hope your Pavoni continues to serve you well and you'll stay around the forum to keep us updated on your experiences.

Anyways, I'm off to roast some more coffee...

[shapeshifter]

I haven't had a problem with mine since day dot, purchased in January, I wouldn't think mine is made any different to anyone elses, well besides the addition of the brass OPV and that I roast my own so don't put crap coffee through it.

*shrugs*

[billbro]

So it's a bit of a silly question, but is it possible to overdose using the smart grinder?


I thought that the grinder had 'smart iq' so I wouldn't need to worry about dosing, but when I lowered the dose I was getting closer to 9 bars.

Still trying to understand the whole balance between grind, dose and tamp

[Jimmytheboot]

I thought that the grinder had 'smart iq' so I wouldn't need to worry about dosing, but when I lowered the dose I was getting closer to 9 bars.

But is the timing still good?

Still trying to understand the whole balance between grind, dose and tamp

Finer grinds, and increases in dose are more resistive to flow so pressures are higher and flowrates lower.
Tamping is a bit overrated IMO, its either good enough or not, doubt there are real differences in flow if you tamped to 10kg instead of 15kg force.

[billbro]

But is the timing still good?




Finer grinds, and increases in dose are more resistive to flow so pressures are higher and flowrates lower.
Tamping is a bit overrated IMO, its either good enough or not, doubt there are real differences in flow if you tamped to 10kg instead of 15kg force.

From memory it was way too short, but I'm still messing around with the timing - it's not exact at the moment and around the 30 sec mark.

Went through another cheap bag of beans to experiment, but should probably just watch more youtube clips or read. Thanks for the response though!

[WiredArabica]

From memory it was way too short, but I'm still messing around with the timing - it's not exact at the moment and around the 30 sec mark.

Went through another cheap bag of beans to experiment, but should probably just watch more youtube clips or read. Thanks for the response though!

Hi Billbro,
How old are your "cheap beans"? If they're more than 2-3 weeks old then you're really not going to get anywhere with those, and probably aren't even worth practising with.
See the videos linked above for correct dosing level - the top of the metal part of the tamper should be level with the top of the basket when tamped.
You can set up the timer on your grinder (and if it's been sitting more than a few minutes make sure to purge a couple of seconds through it before use to clear stale coffee between burrs and chute), but I'd suggest starting with the basics, because when initially dialling in a new bean the grind size and grind time are in a state of flux:

• Slightly overfill the basket (by the same amount each time).
• Tap twice to settle the grounds.
• Level (use flat side of index finger or back edge of a knife to scrape the excess)
• Tamp firmly. It's not the most critical thing just how hard but try and keep it constant and more importantly level

This is referred to as "dosing by eye" or "free dosing" and while individual methods may vary the above should get you at least pretty close to a correct and constant dose with little fuss.

Then keep the dose constant and adjust finer or coarser to slow down / speed up the shot.
Aim for 50-60ml (for a double, or 25-30ml for a single) in 25-35secs.

At this point you can play with setting the timer on the grinder if you feel the need.

Wired

Edit to add:
1) See if you've a good Barista trainer available locally, or somewhere that offers a basic training course. An hour or two with such a person will be a great investment.
2) You mention above pulling shots at 10-11bar.... What do you get with the blind filter?

[eaglemick]

Hey guys,

Need some advice!

I've had my BDB just under a year and all has been going well until now! For some reason I just can't get a decent shot this week!

I'm using the standard settings and portafilter with the bit of plastic removed plus the included dual basket. In the past I've had best results with the temp running at 10 but for the past few days I've had the temp at 10 but I'm only getting an 18 sec extraction with 10ml coffee and 5ml crema!

Dose looks fine with a slight basket impression after pour but its way too bitter so I'm at a loss as to what's going wrong.

Any ideas?

[Barry_Duncan]

We were commenting on OPV settings a few posts ago.

Here is a string where water pressure settings (OPV) and vibe verses rotary pumps were discussed back in June:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-co...tary-pump.html

Barry

[Barry_Duncan]

Eaglemick,

Your temp should be up in the 90’s as shown on the LCD display. Is it your pressure that is at 10 bar on the round dial? If so it is ok.

I find the main cause of a change in pour and flavour is a change in the coffee beans I use. Have you changed your coffee beans? What coffee are you using?

I use the manual button and shot clock for timing my extraction.

Barry

[billbro]

Edit to add:
1) See if you've a good Barista trainer available locally, or somewhere that offers a basic training course. An hour or two with such a person will be a great investment.
2) You mention above pulling shots at 10-11bar.... What do you get with the blind filter?

Thanks for the advice.


Do I have to overfill the basket? Dosing still doesn't really make sense to me, mainly as I thought the machine was meant to automatically adjust the dose based on the grind size - e.g. less when I grind finer - so wouldn't overfilling mean I am using too much grind?

1) been considering a 'proper barista' course, but a certified one is about $200-300. My local cafe has been fantastic and giving me a few pointers, hopefully I'll get there eventually.
2) I don't have a blind filter to test it (though I read a post with someone putting a 5c piece above the plastic plug to mirror it?) - using the plastic plug/stopper I'm still getting 10.5 bar.

[pcrussell50]

Dosing still doesn't really make sense to me, mainly as I thought the machine was meant to automatically adjust the dose based on the grind size - e.g. less when I grind finer - so wouldn't overfilling mean I am using too much grind?

That may be how it was designed, but I'm going to have to have serious doubts about it's ability to perform that way as advertised. There are no professional grade grinders, costing 10-15x as much as the bcg800 that do what it claims to do. And certainly no "third-wave" baristas who would rely on such a gimmick.

1) been considering a 'proper barista' course, but a certified one is about $200-300.

Money well spent if you do not have the time to learn slowly and meticulously and spend long hours on the forms. A good course can cut a lot of time out of the learning process--months-to-years, depending on how scientifically you approach problem solving. If you apply scientific methods like weighing every single dose and weighing the espresso itself as it comes out, aiming for specific grounds-to-extracted coffee ratios*, AND take notes on the grind adjustment, age of the beans, taste of the resulting shot (remember, even Phil takes notes), you will take years out of the learning process.

*for example, typical espresso normale would have the liquid coffee weigh about twice the dry grounds used. so if you started with 18.0g of grinds, a typical normale would weigh 36.0g of extracted liquid espresso. ristrettos are more like 1:1 18.0g grinds to 18.0g liquid espresso. somewhere in between is where ristretto becomes espresso. the exact figure is not important. let your tongue decide and take notes so you will remember what worked.

-peter

[WiredArabica]

...Do I have to overfill the basket? Dosing still doesn't really make sense to me, mainly as I thought the machine was meant to automatically adjust the dose based on the grind size - e.g. less when I grind finer - so wouldn't overfilling mean I am using too much grind?

Remember it's only a timer (I really wish they'd simply used an actual time display to emphasise that - it'd avoid so much confusion), so if that's how you want to control your dose you have to set it up correctly for that to happen. The variables are grind size and grind time. Changing the grind size will change the amount the grinder doses for a given setting. Make sense? That's why I suggest eliminating the grind time variable until you understand what you're trying to achieve.
Focus on having the correct volume of tamped coffee in the basket each and every time (which the above method should get you, and use the metal part of the tamper as a guide), and then get the grind size sorted to get the correct flow rate.
I'm not really a fan of weighing beans myself (aside from the occasional diagnostic session) but if you've a scale available with 0.1g resolution I guess you could start with that until you get the hang of things.

1) been considering a 'proper barista' course, but a certified one is about $200-300. My local cafe has been fantastic and giving me a few pointers, hopefully I'll get there eventually.

[roscoes2]

...some thoughts....

Thanks "wiredarabica" for the Vivace "Ultimate Espresso" recommendation. The beans arrived yesterday and while still a bit fresh off roast....I was into them. I had some trouble with the single basket getting the "taste/mouth feel" I was sure the beans could produce. While no expert myself.....Vivace has won numerous awards for excellent coffee.

The shots I was pulling were all consistantly at the 25 ml mark in about 26-28 seconds with good pours. The machine was set at 8sec pre-infusion at 60 degrees......but the coffee was "bland". After considering Raymond Parkers thread....I was leaning a little bit that way, thinking that my old Italian girls produced a "richer/better textured" shot.
....So out with the single basket and following my normal pattern of "eyeometer" dosing the double, away I went. The first shot poured perfectly into two cups at 30ml each with the same machine settings.
....What a difference.....rich, smooth espresso...and the best thing....I had two cups of it to drink!

regards
Ross

[crazysurfanz]

Thanks for the advice.


Do I have to overfill the basket? Dosing still doesn't really make sense to me, mainly as I thought the machine was meant to automatically adjust the dose based on the grind size - e.g. less when I grind finer - so wouldn't overfilling mean I am using too much grind?

1) been considering a 'proper barista' course, but a certified one is about $200-300. My local cafe has been fantastic and giving me a few pointers, hopefully I'll get there eventually.
2) I don't have a blind filter to test it (though I read a post with someone putting a 5c piece above the plastic plug to mirror it?) - using the plastic plug/stopper I'm still getting 10.5 bar.

Just regarding the blind filter, if you have a newer BDB, the rubber insert probably doesn't have a hole in it, in which case, using one of the dual wall filters, with the rubber insert, gives you effectively a blind filter - you don't need the 5c piece - that's only if it has a hole in it (which was the case on the first batch).

[crazysurfanz]

WiredArabica - where in NZ did you get your naked portafilter? My partner has been trying to get one for me but hasn't had much luck - Breville pushed her on to the 'service centers' but the ones she has been in touch with haven't got them in yet apparently - and haven't wanted to do a pre order. I'm in Wellington btw.