Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[DavidW1960]

The Auto-Function is reliant on the flow rate so something (age of beans, grind, dose) must be different to get a different flow.

Phil from Breville is on record in this thread multiple times saying to use the Manual button. I wouldn't count on Breville being able to 'fix' it and suggest you just use the manual button like all professionals will do...

[stoph]

I'll definitely suggest she use the manual button from now.

All this being said, I've tried pulling shots with the auto (for arguments sake) and had one fail, but the follow up shot go smoothly. this has happened a few times to me now, as I wanted to be sure it wasn't just a random occurrence. In all instances, including the failed shots, the flow rates have been identical: no channeling, no gushing, it's been slow and consistent, and no spikes or drops in pressure. Doesn't fill the cup like it would if it'd gone catastrophically wrong. The dose, grind and tamp have been near identical, with some minimal adjustments to tighten up with the aging beans, and shifting to fresh beans.

Definitely taking on your advice, just curious as to what else (if anything) might be occurring here.

[joes]

Overall, we're very happy with the machine so far. The first few shots left a lot to be desired. But now that we have the grind and tamp sorted out, it's consistently turning out excellent shots. It may not be recommended by some, but the automatic two cup setting works well. I did set the pre-infusion up to 10 seconds, and the shot kicks off about 30 seconds later (total of 40 seconds, give or take a little).

So far, the Vario - W also works great; I love that built in weigh scale. The dose may be a little light at 15 grams, and I might add a gram or two to that. I was a little concerned about making a mess when dumping the fresh ground coffee from the grinder bin to the portafilter. But the shape and size of the Vario bin makes that quick and easy. No static cling, and no flimsy lids to fight against.

One question: The factory preset for brew temperature is 200 degrees. I'm wondering if that is the optimal temperature, or whether more experienced users recommend moving that temp up or down. What difference would turning it up or down make?

[PrescottCR]

Overall, we're very happy with the machine so far. The first few shots left a lot to be desired. But now that we have the grind and tamp sorted out, it's consistently turning out excellent shots. It may not be recommended by some, but the automatic two cup setting works well. I did set the pre-infusion up to 10 seconds, and the shot kicks off about 30 seconds later (total of 40 seconds, give or take a little).

So far, the Vario - W also works great; I love that built in weigh scale. The dose may be a little light at 15 grams, and I might add a gram or two to that. I was a little concerned about making a mess when dumping the fresh ground coffee from the grinder bin to the portafilter. But the shape and size of the Vario bin makes that quick and easy. No static cling, and no flimsy lids to fight against.

One question: The factory preset for brew temperature is 200 degrees. I'm wondering if that is the optimal temperature, or whether more experienced users recommend moving that temp up or down. What difference would turning it up or down make?

Can you tamp successfully with only 15g in the 18g basket? The shape of the basket kinda makes it hard if you under dose too much.

To answer your temp question- My experience is that for drastically lighter roasts turn the temp up to 203 or so. For much darker roasts, drop the temp. That seems to mellow out the spiky flavors.

The real answer is- try different things and see what works for you and your beans.

[joes]

Can you tamp successfully with only 15g in the 18g basket? The shape of the basket kinda makes it hard if you under dose too much.

I would say that 15 grams is the minimum that one can use. Any less and the tamp pressure would not be adequate for a good shot. While the tamper does begin to bottom out against the sides of the basket with 15 grams, with that amount of coffee the tamp pressure is enough to create good flow resistance in the puck. Adding a few grams certainly wouldn't hurt; as my tolerance for caffeine increases, that may happen.

[joes]

Another noobee question: When frothing milk, does it make any difference whether the vortex goes clockwise or counterclockwise? Instructions say that it should be clockwise, but counterclockwise seems easier to do. I don't suppose this has anything to do with whether one lives in the northern or southern hemisphere (I've heard that the vortex in a toilet flush in Australia is in the opposite direction from that here in the northern hemisphere.)

[PrescottCR]

I would say that 15 grams is the minimum that one can use. Any less and the tamp pressure would not be adequate for a good shot. While the tamper does begin to bottom out against the sides of the basket with 15 grams, with that amount of coffee the tamp pressure is enough to create good flow resistance in the puck. Adding a few grams certainly wouldn't hurt; as my tolerance for caffeine increases, that may happen.

You're right in that as long as it tastes good then you've done it correctly!

I started using the single (god forbid! I know) basket with ~13g in it. 10g was always WAY too small of a dose for me to get a good tamp. Here's the weird thing about the single basket- it's design requires a different grind than a larger basket. It's a more coarse grind! Yes, significantly more coarse. Enough that it doesn't 'look' right at first. Go too coarse and the PF will push off as it will appear overdosed. So it's a tricky balance. I also shortened the pre-infusion time to 4 seconds and my shots taste best at 26 seconds on the shot clock. I'm weighing my pour, so at 26 seconds the scale reads ~23g. After I hit the button and the last drip has dropped I am at 26g-ish. The OPV barely comes on, if at all during this combo of dose/grind/time. Occasionally when switching out beans in a grinder I'll get ~13g in the same amount of time, or a ristretto pour. Which means I need to adjust the grinder for the new beansif I want more volume. Anyway, I always try the ristrettos for grins and sometimes they are very good.

So if you're not embarrassed, you might consider the single basket. You might be able to get your dose down to 10g with your beans. The Breville tamp will tell you if you've got a good dose. Another minor touch that B-Ville thought of which really helps.

Just some food for thought!

[PrescottCR]

To answer your vortex question-No.

During my Barista training I spooked the instructor because I naturally default to counter clockwise. That's how I stir things naturally too. I'm just weird like that. Right handed, in the norther hemisphere, and I go counter clockwise. Go figure. It still worked. I think which way you wind up steaming prolly depends on where you are in relation to the steam wand.

Unless there's some bad karma involved.

I've heard the same thing about flushes down under. I wonder what happens if you're on the equator?

[cuznvin]

What do you guys think about the Oracle?

[joes]

I've heard the same thing about flushes down under. I wonder what happens if you're on the equator?

No vortex maybe - just straight down??

[PrescottCR]

What do you guys think about the Oracle?

The more automation might appeal to some, and be a turn off to others. I like having a separate grinder (grinders in my case), tamping, steaming when I have to, etc. For another $800 you're getting all these added features.

One of the things I do appreciate, even if it's not a machine I am interested in buying- the footprint. The footprint looks to be the same as the BES900. That's pretty impressive.

The real question is how well made is it? How will it hold up over time. The features look nice, and I am guessing they are easy to use and work as advertised.

I look forward to seeing it reviewed. Even though I wasn't impressed with some of the more popular reviews of the BDB that didn't mention key features....

Anyone know if that price point is reasonable for the feature list?

[bkpr]

Hey everyone.

I've had my Breville Dual Boiler for about 6 months, and aside from the early and well documented pressure issues, to which Breville replaced the machine immediately, I've had no issues*, until now. For the last couple of weeks, I've felt the steam coming from the machine is 'wetter' than it used to be. My milk has been frothing with 90% hot more/less unfoamed milk below, with small bubbly foam on top (not microfoam, it's more bubbly than that). It's possible it's me, but I'm confident I'm doing it the same way I've always done it.

Previous to this machine, I had a Sunbeam dual boiler (model 6910?). I remember having the same issue after about a year but I was able to reduce the 'wetness' of the steam through on-screen controls which remedied the problem for me then.

Is there a way to adjust the steam moisture on the 900? Could there be another reason I'm getting this non-microfoam (steam temp is lower/higher? steam power has decreased?). Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers
Bart

[mikemp3]

I've had the Double boiler for 6 mths now and no problems but found some coffees were extracting very sour.

I went to visit the roaster we examined my technique etc which was fine. He examined my water temp as it exited the machine and it was 89 degrees this was less than the 93 degrees stated on the LCD screen. So we raised the temp on the LCD to 95 and the water exiting was now about 93.

This has made a significant improvement to my espressos. You require enough heat to caramelise the sugars and produce the denser flavour characters that will balance the sour elements. The sour elements are still there but now balanced with bolder, caramel, chocolate, bitter character. This has probably been mentioned much before but was a simple but substantial improvement.

Of course you can lower the temperature if you seek lighter fruitier sourer elements.

[johnsmith]

I've had the Double boiler for 6 mths now and no problems but found some coffees were extracting very sour.

I went to visit the roaster we examined my technique etc which was fine. He examined my water temp as it exited the machine and it was 89 degrees this was less than the 93 degrees stated on the LCD screen. So we raised the temp on the LCD to 95 and the water exiting was now about 93.

That's interesting. I thought the BDB is one of the more accurate and temperature stable machines out there. How long had the machine been on for before you did the test? Was the portafilter warmed up?

[Coffeengineer]

Thanks Len

Just wanted to write to say thanks to Len at the Ultimo repair centre. I have not read all this thread so apologies for any repeats.

I have had my BDB for around one year and it suddenly stopped any flow (valve/O ring I guess) so I took it down to Ultimo and fortunately Len arrived while I was there so I was able to take him though all the issues. Note Len is an independent contractor and keeps his own hours, best not to to expect him there till 11 in the morning.

My machine was one of the early ones, it had the OPV adjusted (9.5) but none of the other fixes since it had been stuck in distribution for nearly a year, based upon its serial number.

Len suggested that he take the unit to Botany for a full upgrade, which he did a day or two later - new valve assembly and apparently replacing lots of plastic plumbing with metal parts (I have not bothered looking inside). This is a brand new upgrade that Len did not have the parts for at the time. The machine was couriered back to me same day on the Friday after dropping it in on the Monday, which was OK since the machine really feels like new, quite different - the pump is much quieter, pressure spot on 9 for good extraction... the collar was replaced to help with PF ejection, new firmware so the vol buttons should work, though I am now in the habit of using manual... I do think it is doing a better job. Perhaps it is counting shots better by ignoring flushes > 7 secs also.

The only issue not addressed was an upgraded drip tray to stop leakage onto the bench. Phil McK told me that there was a new drip tray coming into production in about 6 months, at Sydney Aromafest. My solution is attached, bit of a hack but it does work for my situation where I like to do the PF wiggle from full pressure and so there is a bit of spraying: Fill the underside of the drip tray around the centre with silastic and then hit the top with an angle grinder to remove the lip and divert any flow back into the tray. One needs to take this much off for it to work reliably.