Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[neofelis]

Just got my machine back after being at the repairers for the second time. The group head is no longer gushing water out. 3 probes were replaced along with all seals. And they forgot to cap the Bar pressure to 10 bars. So it needs to go back again!

Its a 50 minute trip each way and I've already made 4 trips! Basically they did everything right besides the OPV adjustment

[peter.scales]

In the US Breville appear to be giving owners with problematic BES900XL's a new BES920XL for a $350 "repair fee". Given Breville's boast of a 10 year design life when the 900 was first released it is a shame they don't give Australian users the same opportunity to upgrade. Surely a 2 - 3 year service life for a $1400 appliance is not acceptable under Australian consumer law?

+1

I've been following the coffeegeek thread, envious of the support they've been receiving from the US distributor.

The US$350 probably translates to AU$500, but I'd sure be willing to pay that to get a 920XL replacement for my 900XL.

If the "traded" 900XLs can be refurbished by a capable technician and resold (probably on a contractor basis) it should not cost Breville Aust all that much to implement, and would do wonders for their reputation locally.

I'm not sure of the extent to which Breville Aust appreciates that local reputation goes international pretty much instantaneously these days.

[Stand]

does anyone else have a problem with the regulator, where when i try to pull a double shot the machine just doesn't stop and when i try the double shot button without any coffee in the basket the amount of water is correct?

[kaanage]

Needless to say my new german/italian fully serviceable dual boiler machine is on its way. A lot more money but it will last a lot longer.

You could have bought a secondhand heat exchanger machine that would give you years of trouble free operation (aside from basic maintenance) for quite a bit less than the replacement cost of your Breville

[coolie21]

You could have bought a secondhand heat exchanger machine that would give you years of trouble free operation (aside from basic maintenance) for quite a bit less than the replacement cost of your Breville

Yes, there IS a lot of choice out there, isn't there....

[warrenlui]

The cuplrit will be a worn out plastic insert in the group collar which is meant to lock the group handle into place. I had a photo of it here but I can't find it, think it's on my home computer.
The insert itself is no longer supplied by Breville, the only option is to buy a group collar rebuild kit which contains the group collar, collar insert and a new group handle.
A Breville service agent cost for this kit is around $90 and it's easy to install.

The new replacement collar insert is not a lot different to the original collar insert, it may be a bit more rugged to last longer but it certainly isn't metal.

If your machine has not been serviced in the past and depending on the serial number of the machine, there are several things that will need to be done.

These could include:
- New solenoid gasket
- New steam boiler probes
- New OPV
- Software upgrade

The repair bill may become quite high if all of these things are to be done. As long as your agent has good technicians, your machine will be running like new once you get it back.

Thanks noidle22, seems like there are a few things that may need fixing. Would these items need repairing due to general "wear and tear" or an issue which should have been resolved whilst my machine was in warranty?

Can this kit be installed yourself?

Has anyone had their machine serviced by Espresso Fix in Balwyn North? I have taken my machine to J & T Elect App Service in Asburton for a warranty fix but its a bit far. But I was happy with their original work.

Thanks
Warren

[noidle22]

a) Thanks noidle22, seems like there are a few things that may need fixing. Would these items need repairing due to general "wear and tear" or an issue which should have been resolved whilst my machine was in warranty?

b) Can this kit be installed yourself?

c) I have taken my machine to J & T Elect App Service in Asburton for a warranty fix but its a bit far. But I was happy with their original work.

a) These issues should have all been taken care of when the machine was under warranty regardless of if they were a problem or not. This is instructed by Breville to all of their service agents so if they haven't done all of the required repairs as dictated by the serial number of your machine then they have not done the job properly.

b) I would advise against doing the repair yourself.

c) If they have not repaired the machine to Breville's specifications, that is a bit worrying. If you're happy with thier work and they have done what is required then it would be worth the extra travel to know that you will get good service.

a) I have the flying portafilter problem, which is getting particularly aggravating for me. Does the collar rebuild kit fix that issue?

b) Also the steam wand is now very leaky.

c) In addition the pump rarely comes on during pre-infusion. For this problem I used to be able to get by with a priming blip of the brew pump (using the press-and-hold 1cup button trick) but that technique is no longer working reliably.

d) I've also had the problem of the boiler going over temperature when on standby, requiring the opening of both the steam valve and water valve to reduce boiler temperatures to allow the machine to operate.

e) I'm about to approach Swift Appliances (in Perth) regarding a repair quote. Your list of things to be addressed is useful for that, and I'd appreciate a full list of things I should ask about.

a) Yes the new collar kit will fix this problem

b) It will need a new steam valve. In some cases the small lower o-ring on the valve can have sustained damage which means only the o-ring will need to be replaced.
The steam valve is a cheap part so it would probably be better to just replace the whole thing.

c) I haven't seen this exact problem before. Do you meant the pump doesn't even make any noise during pre-infusion or makes noise but doesn't pump any water out?
Unsure what the root cause of either of these problems would be, could be the control board not functioning correctly which may be expensive. If the machine is a first generation with original software, a software upgrade may fix this.

d) Does it display an error on the screen, perhaps Err3? This could be a faulty group head NTC that is telling the group head heater to run constantly and overheat.
If it is Err1, it could be the coffee boiler NTC that is the problem.
Alternatively, if the anti-vac valve or boiler probes on the steam boiler are leaking, the steam boiler will operate more than it is meant to which will increase overall system heat. Breville told me that this can be the cause sometimes, i'm still not entirely sure that is is the primary problem in these overheating cases.

e) Make sure they have replaced all the required parts as outlined by Breville based on the serial number of your machine. If they are an authorised agent they should know what this is.
Outline your current problems to them and they should understand what needs to be done.

I can't see this being a cheap repair though based on all the problems it currently has. Depending on the quote you get from your agent depends on if you want to go ahead with it or not.

[kaanage]

Yes, there IS a lot of choice out there, isn't there....

Yep. Especially up your way with Baratzi always having good refurbished machines available (I see them all the time on eBay and get jealous)

[peter.scales]

a) Yes the new collar kit will fix this problem

b) It will need a new steam valve. In some cases the small lower o-ring on the valve can have sustained damage which means only the o-ring will need to be replaced.
The steam valve is a cheap part so it would probably be better to just replace the whole thing.

c) I haven't seen this exact problem before. Do you meant the pump doesn't even make any noise during pre-infusion or makes noise but doesn't pump any water out?
Unsure what the root cause of either of these problems would be, could be the control board not functioning correctly which may be expensive. If the machine is a first generation with original software, a software upgrade may fix this.

d) Does it display an error on the screen, perhaps Err3? This could be a faulty group head NTC that is telling the group head heater to run constantly and overheat.
If it is Err1, it could be the coffee boiler NTC that is the problem.
Alternatively, if the anti-vac valve or boiler probes on the steam boiler are leaking, the steam boiler will operate more than it is meant to which will increase overall system heat. Breville told me that this can be the cause sometimes, i'm still not entirely sure that is is the primary problem in these overheating cases.

e) Make sure they have replaced all the required parts as outlined by Breville based on the serial number of your machine. If they are an authorised agent they should know what this is.
Outline your current problems to them and they should understand what needs to be done.

I can't see this being a cheap repair though based on all the problems it currently has. Depending on the quote you get from your agent depends on if you want to go ahead with it or not.

Noidle, thank you very much for the comprehensive and informative response.

Regarding item c)
No pump noise no pressure gauge increase. Though I have interrupted the shot and some water has been delivered to the group. If I take the pre-infusion pressure up 70-75 or above (if I recall correctly) the pump operates as expected. At the default 60 with a pre-shot "press-and-hold-1cup-button" blip of the pump it used to operate reliably, though less so recently. Without a pre-brew blip I'm unlikely to get any pump noise during pre-infusion. I'm hopeful a software update might help. I should emphasize that this is an intermittent issue, so tough to diagnose.

Regarding item d)
No Err messages at all. Just the display blinking indicating coming up to temperature. However turn-off-then-on shows 97degC briefly, then back to 94 (target) and blinking. Machine refuses to operate without opening the steam valve (first) and the water valve (which refuses to deliver water initially) to cool the boilers and eventually the group. Once the boilers have been brought back below target temperature and the group has been flushed the boilers come up to operating temperature normally. This also is an intermittent issue i.e. another tough one.

Regarding item e)
Replacement of all required parts based on serial number, how do I ensure this is attended to?
The dealer is certainly an authorised agent, and I am hopeful of their thoroughness and attention to detail. I will be taking in a laundry list of issues to be addressed, along with information gleaned from this thread - again my appreciation for your input.

The cost of the repair is less of an issue than the usability post service work, and subsequent durability.
When this machine is operating to specification it delivers astonishingly good coffee and microfoam.
I look at the overall cost per year of ownership, compared to the next best alternative, for the quality delivered.
I suspect I'll be paying a price for having been an early adopter - but I have enjoyed very good coffee since 2011.

[cyberhuey]

Well it looks like the $1199 Breville BES900 issues have come home to roost for me, group handle doesnt stay in position, water spout leaks although i hardly use this and lately during pre-infusion the noise is getting louder and louder and doesnt sound right. Machine gets cleaned weekly and use filtered water to fill it.

Machine is out of warranty by 9 months and Breville say no warranty, well i just got my answer about a company that will not stand behind their product once warranty is out.

As im reluctant to waste good money on getting a machine fixed for a number of issues and potentially more as ive has mine since june 2012 and which could cost more than 1/2 a new machine cost and still have no warranty, im now looking for another machine and dont think it will be a breville, i dont want to get burnt 2 1/2 yrs later again.

Next step to start investigating a rocket giotto or similar....

[neofelis]

There is one option.... Swapping the serial numbers around with someone who's machine is in warranty.. dodgy I know but can be done and will get fixed

One thing I did find out though is that Breville parts are extremely cheap! If you order parts maybe you can fix it yourself?


Oh and as a side note. I don't care what anyone says, these machines simply last 2.5 years and then they're End of life. The proofs in the pudding gentlemen and there is well and truly enough evidence to back this up!

If you're thinking about purchasing one of these machines or any breville machine make sure you purchase the extended warranty! It will save you a lot of headaches!

[noidle22]

There is one option.... Swapping the serial numbers around with someone who's machine is in warranty.. dodgy I know but can be done and will get fixed

Please don't do this.

[ShotHead]

Pump problem?

My BES900 seems to be having a pump problem. Of late the pressure when using the blind filter has dropped from 10 to 9 bar. Also, when a shot is being pulled the gauge sits at 9 bar, but the needle "bounces" a little. Lastly, I cannot dial in a good shot anymore. It's either too slow or too fast. This is using the Breville smart grinder and a double basket (and fresh beans). I've checked the dosing of the grinder and it's still reproducible, and I've confirmed the grind size is changing as the coarseness knob is adjusted.

Any ideas?

[Barry_Duncan]

Nothing wrong with 9 bar. How is the flavour? That is the ultimate test. Pressure may bounce if you are getting channelling through the puck. Try tampiing a little heavier.

Barry

[peter.scales]

Noidle, thank you very much for the comprehensive and informative response.

...snip....

The cost of the repair is less of an issue than the usability post service work, and subsequent durability.

For anybody following along at home...and interested...the quote is in : $601. Standard 3 months warranty.

hhmmm.
Brand new BES920 (machine only, no grinder) can be bought from an online source for $1199 + freight. 2 years manufacturer's warranty.

hhmmmm.
My inclination is always to repair/reuse - recycle as a last resort. I'm ideologically resistant to the pervasive throw-away mentality.
But economic rationalism is also ever-present. And durability post-repair is particularly tough to assess.

I've had 3¼ years' service so far. If the repair can deliver another 3 years....probably worth it. That's perhaps a big "IF".
And it does push up the annual cost of ownership a fair bit.

So those $4k Italian/European machines with 10yr minimum life expectancy start to look like a much more economically-viable alternative.

Anybody care to share (considered) thoughts on this? Apart from rants, is what I mean.......