Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[peter.scales]

repair quote

Bit steep but if they're replacing all the required things and running a descale then I suppose it could be justified. Did they provide a list of what they will be doing?
....snip

Time for an update. Parts list :

BES900/85 Group Head kit..................$196.50
(includes new portafilter, the later BES900/B one with the wider lugs)

BES900/100 Seal with pins.....................$7.70
(Solenoid valve gasket)

BES900/03.2 Shower Head complete.....$105.45
(I believe this is the electrically heated group head assembly, not the shower screen and distribution block)

BES900/09.6 Steam ball joint.................$89.90

BES900/03.11 NTC...............................$18.55
(Temperature sensor)

BES900/05.4 Steam boiler probes...........$32.90

Labour............................................ .$150.00 (includes software update)

I tried pricing the parts at eReplacementParts (US site) but the "Group Head kit" and "Gasket Kit for Solenoid Valve" show as obsolete - not available.
Shower Head Complete is US$55.99
Ball Valve Complete Kit is US$42.33
NTC is $US 16.01

I didn't (and don't) haggle over the repair cost, not the repairer's margin on parts. I'm after their best repair job and my main concern is the subsequent service life of the repaired item. If that's what they need to charge to stay in business - that's what I need to pay to have their services available next time.

Am I happy with the outcome?
- Flying portafilter : fixed. I now need to adjust my workflow for no longer having to hold onto the portafilter through the shot. Big tick.
- Leaky steam wand : fixed. Tick - depending on the service life of the new part.
- Overheating on standby : Too soon to tell, but looks promising.
- Pre-infusion pump activation : Fixed. Big tick.

Machine still extracts at around 9 bar, and shows a whisker over 10 with the blind filter. They haven't played with settings that were pretty much ideal pre-repair. That's a good thing. Group seal not replaced - and still sealing just fine.

Machine showed many more signs of handling than I'd have liked, though that's a common feature of repair work in general in this country. But no major dings or scratches, so a pass on that, I guess, though no high marks. Repairers might never be as attentive to those details as a careful owner (which I reckon I am).

First extraction post-repair was just fine, thanks for asking. And the ease of use, returning from my PID controlled Silvia (backup machine), is even more appreciated.

So, I've now paid my price for being an early adopter (S/No 1126-000094). I hope the machine has now been largely upgraded to BES920 standards, though without the ability to increase the steam boiler pressure, nor set the 1 cup/2 cup buttons for extraction time - rather than (unpredictable) volume, nor to descale boilers at home.
I can live without those features. The water I use is specifically adjusted to avoid the need for descale, and scale did not rate a mention by the repairer.

How am I feeling about my Breville ownership experience?
It would have been nice to get more input from Breville on this journey. The Collar kit is certainly an upgrade, though that's not made clear by the Company nor the repairer, just my assessment of the outcome. The Steam Ball Joint and other parts - I have no way of assessing whether these have been upgraded, rather than just replaced with original equipment level parts. I can only hope it is the former.

I would really like this machine to be a success for many reasons, not all of them completely rational.

- The temperature stability achieved with the electrically heated group is a major innovation, on a par with the development of the E61 group, for me, as it achieves the result with a much lower consumption of materials. It is much lighter, and comes up to temperature stability more quickly.

- The manufacturing model : design in Oz, manufacture in China (or Thailand, or Vietnam or...) - is the way of the future, I reckon.

- Ease of use features address a prospective customer base much wider/larger than that previously available, more than just the enthusiasts prepared to pay up for scaled-down commercial machines.
BES900 and 920 have brought a swag of newbies into the enthusiast ranks, having made better espresso more attainable for more people. That's a good thing, I reckon. More people will be less tolerant of poor commercial offerings, while good operators should get more appreciation and prosper thereby.

[beezneez]

Hi Peter.Scales
Did you end up using Swift? I have gone there before but had to leave the machine there for a week and I don't have a backup. They only have one repairer and he didn't work every day. Is it still the same?

[coolie21]

@peterscales having been through the same recently I sympathise, though I think I got off more lightly on account of fewer major replacements and electing to put up with a dripping steam wand (the machine is being repurposed to 'lighter duties' and will spend much of its time switched off).
Despite my disappointment with Breville's poor attitude to customers who essentially paid to be beta testers (the BES920 being the true 1.0 version), which I think was a grave marketing mistake (many buyers, me included, will never touch Breville again) I will give them kudos for introducing a large number of people to real espresso. And to be fair, the 4000+ shots I have pulled over the last 3 years on it have cost me less than 45c a shot, including coffee. And given the long history of traditional espresso machines, it is interesting that manufacturers of these are only now considering implementing features made popular with Breville (PID, shot timer anyone?).
This is the last comment I'll make here on the bes900. I've just enjoyed a superb coffee on the refurbished machine, I hope the first of many this holiday weekend. Enjoy yours too!

[peter.scales]

Swift

Hi Peter.Scales
Did you end up using Swift? I have gone there before but had to leave the machine there for a week and I don't have a backup. They only have one repairer and he didn't work every day. Is it still the same?

G'day Beez
Yep, used Swift.
Had to wait about four days for the quote, but gave the go-ahead Monday and collected repaired machine this morning.
Not sure about the availability of the repairer, but if he's competent it's surely worth waiting for him.

[peter.scales]

Ownership experience

@peterscales having been through the same recently I sympathise, though I think I got off more lightly on account of fewer major replacements and electing to put up with a dripping steam wand (the machine is being repurposed to 'lighter duties' and will spend much of its time switched off).
Despite my disappointment with Breville's poor attitude to customers who essentially paid to be beta testers (the BES920 being the true 1.0 version), which I think was a grave marketing mistake (many buyers, me included, will never touch Breville again) I will give them kudos for introducing a large number of people to real espresso. And to be fair, the 4000+ shots I have pulled over the last 3 years on it have cost me less than 45c a shot, including coffee. And given the long history of traditional espresso machines, it is interesting that manufacturers of these are only now considering implementing features made popular with Breville (PID, shot timer anyone?).
This is the last comment I'll make here on the bes900. I've just enjoyed a superb coffee on the refurbished machine, I hope the first of many this holiday weekend. Enjoy yours too!

G'day coolie

Your choice of replacement machine (Profitec Pro 700) is exactly the machine I had been considering as the alternative to the repair journey. I might still end up there if the durability of the repair come in below expectations.
I have to admit that my machine was still technically serviceable (able to produce amazingly good espresso) prior to repair. Just inconvenient to use, due to the various "issues", including that leaky steam wand.

Amongst other considerations, making my journey public is my contribution to the (invaluable) collected wisdom accumulating in these forums.
I am even hopeful that Breville might learn something here. The difference in tone between the Coffeegeek thread in the US and this one here is in itself instructive. The additional support provided to US buyers has been decisively influential.

I can only agree that the BES920 is what the 1.0 version should have been. Though they did get a lot of things right first up.
Besides the PID control and selectable brew temperature, the remarkable temperature stability throughout the shot, the shot timer, the control over pre-infusion, the "auto on" function, the programmed cleaning cycle.......etc, I also make use of the mobility feature. I wheel the machine out of the way when not in use to free up bench space. Not so easy with the Profitec.

I am also in agreement about the quality of the output. I have teamed this with an HG-one (previously a K3T) and the machine is easily capable of displaying the capabilities of a quality grinder.

I'll raise my cup in salute as I enjoy what the machine can deliver.

[cyberhuey]

Time for an update. Parts list :

BES900/85 Group Head kit..................$196.50
(includes new portafilter, the later BES900/B one with the wider lugs)

BES900/100 Seal with pins.....................$7.70
(Solenoid valve gasket)

BES900/03.2 Shower Head complete.....$105.45
(I believe this is the electrically heated group head assembly, not the shower screen and distribution block)

BES900/09.6 Steam ball joint.................$89.90

BES900/03.11 NTC...............................$18.55
(Temperature sensor)

BES900/05.4 Steam boiler probes...........$32.90

Labour............................................ .$150.00 (includes software update)

.

O_O

You paid basically 1/2 the new cost of BES920 to repair your BES900, imo this isnt ecomonical due to no manufacturer warranty in event something else goes wrong outside of what was repaired, which in my case i wasn't prepared to spend on my bes900, instead i used what i suspect would have been my repair cost $$$ similar to yours towards a vbm domobar machine, a much better machine.....

[peter.scales]

O_O

You paid basically 1/2 the new cost of BES920 to repair your BES900, imo this isnt ecomonical due to no manufacturer warranty in event something else goes wrong outside of what was repaired, which in my case i wasn't prepared to spend on my bes900, instead i used what i suspect would have been my repair cost $$$ similar to yours towards a vbm domobar machine, a much better machine.....

I'm not seeking to persuade anybody about anything.

What I've done is document the outcomes of decisions I've made, and to provide some of the thinking that guided those decisions. I'm comfortable with what I've done, and hopeful that the shared experiences might be of interest others.

So far the repaired machine is providing me with very good service indeed. I am now also in a position to provide information about the post-repair durability, which also might be of interest to others.

Different people take different decisions, with different outcomes. I'm fine with that.

[jaredw]

The current topic of conversation has me a little depressed. Think my 2 year old machine is in need of a service. Pre infusion barely gets up to 1bar and it is taking longer to get up to full pressure. It is losing pressure during the shot as well. Although i am starting to wonder if that is due to channeling so will play with my tamp a bit.

In terms of getting it services is any place better than another?

[jhocarz]

machine

The current topic of conversation has me a little depressed. Think my 2 year old machine is in need of a service. Pre infusion barely gets up to 1bar and it is taking longer to get up to full pressure. It is losing pressure during the shot as well. Although i am starting to wonder if that is due to channeling so will play with my tamp a bit.

In terms of getting it services is any place better than another?

try doing the blind gauge and see if it hits 9.5 bar and adjust if needed, otherwise you can have breville look into it and they will swap it with the new one the 920xl if you make a deal with them about it

[jaredw]

try doing the blind gauge and see if it hits 9.5 bar and adjust if needed, otherwise you can have breville look into it and they will swap it with the new one the 920xl if you make a deal with them about it

It is well out of warranty It hits 10 (set to 10 for some reason) no problem but some times does drop after a while. It is also starting to take longer to get up to 10 bar. Even with pre-infusion set to 70% it barely gets above 1 bar in the 6-7 seconds that it is set to. So i think something is start to give so want to get ahead of the curve. Has anyone had any luck getting them to swap it?

[jhocarz]

it the blind is ok then the machine is find but with regard to the pre infusion i dont have an idea regarding why at low pressure it doesnt seem to show, from the american side they had good swaps there and i would assume breville australia will do its part also, you might have to add up something

[jaredw]

it the blind is ok then the machine is find but with regard to the pre infusion i dont have an idea regarding why at low pressure it doesnt seem to show, from the american side they had good swaps there and i would assume breville australia will do its part also, you might have to add up something

The machine is ok, but as i mentioned it is certainly starting to show signs of problems. Longer times to get to full pressure and some times dropping pressure even with a blind filter in place. Would like to hear if anyone has had any luck here? Or which places they have had better service experience than others.

[rustic]

Another BES900 over here not doing so well.

About 4 weeks ago water stopped pouring out of the group head.
It was a slow death, in the months leading up to this the machine sometimes made a short loud buzzing noise while pouring a shot, in the final weeks some shots took a while to get up to the right pressure or never got to pressure, then eventually none of the shots got up to pressure and now water only drips out of the group head.

After doing a bit of research I believe the o-ring in the 3-way solenoid valve has deteriorated.
My machine was struggling to do consistent shots for the last half a year so now it makes sense the o-ring was wearing out.
The pump seems to be OK as the hot water valve works.

The machine when it was bought new with the brew pressure set at 11 bar and the portafilter slipping off during extractions.
I’ve lived with those niggles up until the machine died so I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed after calling the Breville service centre hotline and told my machine is out of warranty.

Much appreciated if someone could offer some advice and/or point me to a good service centre around Melbourne.

Thanks in advance.

[jhocarz]

Another BES900 over here not doing so well.

About 4 weeks ago water stopped pouring out of the group head.
It was a slow death, in the months leading up to this the machine sometimes made a short loud buzzing noise while pouring a shot, in the final weeks some shots took a while to get up to the right pressure or never got to pressure, then eventually none of the shots got up to pressure and now water only drips out of the group head.

After doing a bit of research I believe the o-ring in the 3-way solenoid valve has deteriorated.
My machine was struggling to do consistent shots for the last half a year so now it makes sense the o-ring was wearing out.
The pump seems to be OK as the hot water valve works.

The machine when it was bought new with the brew pressure set at 11 bar and the portafilter slipping off during extractions.
I’ve lived with those niggles up until the machine died so I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed after calling the Breville service centre hotline and told my machine is out of warranty.

Much appreciated if someone could offer some advice and/or point me to a good service centre around Melbourne.

Thanks in advance.

look for phil mcknight somewhere here he is the breville guy and should be available to help you out

[ShotHead]

I'm still having problems with my BES900, purchased in August 2013. (See post #4986 on page 100 of this thread)

Back flushing with a blind filter used to give a pressure reading of 10 bar. Now it's 9. I cannot seem to dial in my grinder to give a good result in the cup. I've had to reduce the dose to stop choking. Even after doing this, the extraction is either too fast or too slow, and never a crema laden god-shot like previously (using same dose of fresh coffee and tamp pressure, and just changing grind). During extraction the needle on the gauge "flutters" around 9 bar. It never used to flutter.

Some reading I did suggested the "flutter" I'm seeing can be due to a problem with the OPV. Could it be something else?

My machine is still under warranty (just). If I took it into a repair place, how might the function of the OPV be tested in the workshop? How does someone test this objectively?

Also, I could possibly get my machine to the highly regarded Breville repair place in Ultimo (In my previous post I mentioned Cosmorex in Canberra). Has anyone been able to call the Ultimo place directly and get some advice?