Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[inertia8]

I can confirm that I have indeed received the two piece collar inserts and thus require the group collar with the screw holes underneath.

My concern is that the shower head from my bes900 won't fit this collar, given its description is pcd1522 and I believe that will be the pcd of the holes around the group.. I shall confirm next week whether it fits or whether I'm going to need the full group collar service kit w/handle etc

[inorog]

(...) I shall confirm next week whether it fits or whether I'm going to need the full group collar service kit w/handle etc

Seems to me that you're going to get yourself a new 920 made out of parts sent one by one by Breville

This is kind of like those bad kidnapping movies "... and if you're not paying up, I'm going to start sending you parts of her through mail" ; only that you are paying and they're still sending them

[pcrussell50]

I can confirm that I have indeed received the two piece collar inserts and thus require the group collar with the screw holes underneath.

My concern is that the shower head from my bes900 won't fit this collar, given its description is pcd1522 and I believe that will be the pcd of the holes around the group.. I shall confirm next week whether it fits or whether I'm going to need the full group collar service kit w/handle etc

Please do follow up with this information. I am very interested in what you find. And since you are talking about drilling and tapping, you are clearly well suited to DIY repairs. I have not yet encountered anything that requires drilling and tapping, but I'm not afraid to if I have to. Nice to see someone else in the same mindset.

-Peter

[inorog]

On a slightly different subject, I just did a clean cycle on my machine and she came out sparkling clean. I used a teaspoon of Cafetto espresso cleaning powder (I got that a couple of years ago - used it ever since) and I am impressed - I had a look behind the shower screen after the clean and it's absolutely squeaky-clean - no grime, no grease, just clean as clean can be.

Oh, and a hell of a lot more bang for your buck if you get that powder in 1kg tubs. The $20+ for 6 tablets is a rip-off of the highest grade!

Anyway - just a "all is good" report!

[inertia8]

Please do follow up with this information. I am very interested in what you find. And since you are talking about drilling and tapping, you are clearly well suited to DIY repairs. I have not yet encountered anything that requires drilling and tapping, but I'm not afraid to if I have to. Nice to see someone else in the same mindset.

-Peter

I can confirm that the metal group collar that I received, fits perfectly fine, allowing the use of the two piece inserts. Note that my bes900 has had the whole lot replaced in the past during its last in warranty service.

My group/shower head mounting points align with those in the new metal group collar, note that they are blank holes and you need to re-use the self tapping screws to cut a new thread, so care to screw straight and deliberate force were needed. It is the same for the boiler mounting screws, the three tabs line up and then you self tap into the holes on the collar.

Unfortunately, and this is a lesson for all to check first before ordering, like I should have... When I removed my inner and outer shower screens and steam ring, the group head was clean but I noted some bubbling of the teflon? coating, which came off when giving it a rub/clean with some paper towel, revealing rust underneath..

I think this means that the best course of action is to order the full group head service kit.. which I have done.. another $170.. (includes portafilter, shower/group head with new seal and shower screens with screw, metal collar and two piece plastic inserts...)

Notes:
Followed the guide to replace the plastic collar insert... (https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Brevill...t+Guide/40279)

Safety First.. ensure machine is unplugged and is COLD... and take lots of photos at each step for your reference.. if a wire has an insulator, take note and ensure it is replaced as you found it.
Remove water tank.
Remove the 4 back top panel screws. Remove the 2 screws from underneath that hold the top panel in place.
Remove the top panel and twist to allow it to sit behind machine, same with back panel.

Remove water pipes from coffee boiler, unclip electrical connection from water level probes and the two yellow connections from top of boiler.
Remove two screws and then lift up front panel and rest at back of machine without disconnecting anything.
Remove water pipe from hot water tap to allow you to life and maneuver boiler to rest on top of steam boiler at the back of machine.
Remove boiler, I emptied the boiler into a small frothing jug, this required some jiggling to get the water syphoning a couple of times.


Removed the electrical connection and tab holding another wire insulator from group head. Put screws back lightly to keep from losing them.
Removed the group head and metal collar.


Removed shower screen to replace steam seal..
Clean it a little, then cry when discovering rust (almost wish I did not disturb it but it'd go at some point anyway)..


I kept the screws that I did not return into their positions organised in the double wall baskets and single shot basket because I don't use these.

[inertia8]

Seems to me that you're going to get yourself a new 920 made out of parts sent one by one by Breville

This is kind of like those bad kidnapping movies "... and if you're not paying up, I'm going to start sending you parts of her through mail" ; only that you are paying and they're still sending them

Seems to me that you were spot on!!!

[inertia8]

For reference:

Here is the condition of my shower screens and steam ring.. might be best to remove this all and inspect your group/shower head for bubbling/rust.


I use cafetto evo, 2 of the small plastic scoops every 2-3 months when the machine asks to be cleaned, as I only do 1-2 coffee's per day, 3 on weekends... maybe I'll move this to monthly to preserve the new group/shower head? maybe remove the screen and wipe clean more??

Here are the two metal collars.



Here is the cause of the leak that started the investigation..


Here is the result of using the machine with the leak for the past two weeks... I had used my group head brush about 3 weeks prior to this.

[inertia8]

I couldn't stand being without coffee for another 2 weeks, so I'm using the machine as is with the new collar and inserts.. no leaks . Can't detect rust taste personally, others might!

[level3ninja]

I use Cafetto Evo weekly with the cleaning cycle

[pcrussell50]

Wow '8! Solid gold info and research there. There are followers in other forums who will be very grateful for the information you have shared.

As to the nonstick coating bubbling up at group water hole, this seems a common, if not certain situation for any BDB that is maintained in service for long enough. My theory is that it is caused by final stage/group heater that makes our BDBs so sublime at temperature stability. I wouldn't expect much in the way of rust taste since any given bit of water doesn't linger in the rusty area for long, to infuse with rust. As to the inner shower screen/dispersion disc, Breville changed those to a hard resinous feeling plastic some time back, so any flaking or bubbling from the inner shower screen should be easily addressed by an easy swap to the newer version.

-Peter

[Janus]

I use Cafetto too, the stuff is amazing. It will also turn black plastic grey, so try not to get it on your hands

My BES900 is running well after pump replacement and tinkering with the water tank valve, however i've embarked on a burrset upgrade of my ROK Grinder and have come up against a couple of issues which have meant the grinder is out of action in the short term. Am struggling without my morning FW.. hopefully get the parts all sorted by this weekend and then back into good home coffee.

[inertia8]

Happy to provide the info, this forum has been a great help.

Just to confirm, if someone just needs to replace the plastic group collar insert and they have a bes900 or bes920 whereby the metal group collar does not have the 4 screw holes underneath and their shower head is not bubbling etc, then the cheapest way to repair might be what I attempted.

Parts required:
#007 orings just in case yours aren't too good, better to have on hand.
SP0009141 (BES980/06.7.1) Collar Insert for Group Collar New Version 1522 <- these are two piece inserts and come with 4 screws, cost about $6 from Breville Aus and I bought 5 sets so I hopefully never run out before my machine dies...
SP0023063 (BES920/03.4A) Group Collar Version A - PDC 1522 <- this is the metal collar and accepts the two piece inserts above, costs about $30 from Breville Aus.

Some caveats:
My machine was an early BES900, however during its last service just inside of warranty, the technician said he replaced the whole group set with an upgraded one.. my group collar did not have the 4 screw holes, but it has letter A and number 900 embossed on it, so my shower/head and collar might be the latest applicable to BES900 before moving to BES920, unless early 920's did not have the 4 screw holes underneath?

For ref: the new collar has the numbers 2 and 900 embossed

Because I drained my boiler, when I switched on the machine, I left the top off to check for leaks.. the pump kept going and going and eventually the output hose on the steam boiler leading to the coffee boiler sprung a slow leak.. to resolve this, I turned off the machine, release pressure using the hot water dispenser (air/water sputtered out under pressure), then I inspected the hose/oring, no issue found so I figure it was an air lock in the boiler and an over pressure situation.. I then re-assembled and turned on the machine, leaving the hot water tap fully open.. the pump forced the air out, followed by sputtering water/air then just plain water.. closed tap and the machine has operated normally since with no re-occurrence of the leak.

New o-rings are on the way with the shower head, I will replace em all and descale, so I hope my machine gives another 5+ years owing to this major birthday!

[Mxthu]

please guide me to order and buy code ""SP0023063 (BES920/03.4A) Group Collar Version A - PDC 1522 <- this is the metal collar and accepts the two piece inserts above, costs about $30 from Breville Aus.""

[inorog]

I use Cafetto too, the stuff is amazing. It will also turn black plastic grey, so try not to get it on your hands

Nothing magic or bad about it - it's just sodium percarbonate - under high temperature - it dissociates into sodium carbonate (soda ash) Na2CO3 and hydrogen peroxide (peroxide) H2O2 - well... roughly speaking (we shall not mention the sodium cations, carbonate anions and the decomposition of the peroxide in water and oxygen and so on).


But basically - nothing bad about it - home brewers have been using it for yonks to clean up their kit. It's a very nice and safe way to clean, without the residual smell (mmm... Chlorine!)


Ah - and you also use it in Napisan...

Various concentrations of hydrogen peroxide HOOH are fun indeed:

• Things I Won’t Work With: Peroxide Peroxides | In the Pipeline

However, should you desire a mildly stronger oxidiser, you can always go for the chlorine-trifluoride (ClF3):

• Sand Won’t Save You This Time | In the Pipeline
• Chlorine Trifluoride: Some Empirical Findings | In the Pipeline

Or, if you're really brave - go for a batch of Satan's Kimchi - dioxygen difluoride (FOOF):

• Things I Won’t Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride | In the Pipeline

Good luck - and have a pair of good running shoes handy.

[Janus]

I’m no geologist, but I know it burns the skin..

Thanks for the explanation.

[pcrussell50]

I use Cafetto too, the stuff is amazing. It will also turn black plastic grey, so try not to get it on your hands .

Cafetto is basically sodium percarbonate, as Inorog said in post#5518. It is essentially a coffee/espresso detergent. There are other coffee detergents like Cafiza, that also use sodium percarbonate. I have used both and can't really tell the difference. Sodium percarbonate is the base ingredient (plus whatever small amounts of other stuff that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer). It is a common solvent for this type of cleaning. If you still use powder in your electric dishwasher, it's main ingredient is also sodium percarbonate, (but it will probably also have perfumes that you don't want to clean your espresso machine with. I use powder dish detergent and boiling water (from my Breville kettle for cleaning coffee stains off of external things like portafilters, mesh filters, thermal carafes and mugs that have gotten stained up, because you can rinse the perfume off of those things. I save the more expensive Cafiza or Cafetto for the cleaning cycle of my espresso machine, because some of it goes in where you can't see it, through the backflush release into the drip tray.

Most of you probably already know this, but some do not. There are two cleaners you need: coffee detergent, and descaling cleaner. They are two different things. I personally avoid the products that claim to do both. Also, I personally don't use descaling solution, because I use scale free water like the coffee shops so I don't get scale.

-Peter