Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[greenkiwi00]

I would appreciate your advice. I took the machine below in and have been quoted $550 for a range of identified issues, but was advised that it's not possible to tell beforehand if those repairs will fix the machine or if there is a problem with the boiler. If the boiler is also faulty, then it could be a further $500 repair. Now I have a tough decision because those total repairs are almost the cost of a new Breville Dual Boiler. If I was confident that $550 would get a nicely working machine back I think I would do it, but would you take the risk of potentially outlaying the price of a new machine for a repaired one?

Should I keep thinking about rescuing this machine, or get a new one and move on?

I'm assuming you're in Australia, but in case you aren't. I've heard that Breville has a fixed price repair program in the US, $350 for repair or replacement. Any chance you're in the US and can take advantage of that?

If it were me, I'd not be putting $500 into an 8 year only machine. I'd aim for new with a full warranty, or move to one of the machines that it more easily user serviceable.

[pcrussell50]

If it were me, I'd not be putting $500 into an 8 year only machine. I'd aim for new with a full warranty, or move to one of the machines that it more easily user serviceable.

I have owned, used or seen closely, many espresso machines, and the BDB is by a very wide margin, the most reliable and user serviceable pump machine I have ever owned or seen. Unless you let it scale up, almost nothing ever goes wrong with it that isn't some kind of user serviceable, non-proprietary seal, whether it's an o-ring or PTFE washer. And on top of that, it's easily user serviceable. Almost none of the seals that eventually wear require any fitting fingers into tight spaces or removing awkward parts to get to them. Everything is straightforward, right in the top of the machine after removing the top cover. Of course, _any_ commercial or prosumer machine, you are into seriously big $$$ if you don't feed it safe water like the coffee shops do their machines. There is no reason the home BDB owner can't do the same. I do. And so I've never had any scale damage, in eight years. And in all that time I've only had one thing go wrong that couldn't be fixed by me, (well, even that could have been). Everything else was routine maintenance. O-rings on the steam boiler, clean the solenoid, flip the steam valve seals, clean the vacuum breaker (rare, but can happen and easy to fix).

"proprietary" and "not user serviceable" are two very very un earned misnomers about the BDB.

Plus if cutting edge extraction techniques like super long pre infusions using the built in pump controller aren't enough, it's so easy it's almost a joke, to make into a full authority needle valved profiler, or to plumb it with a nearly silent rotary pump.

-Peter

[PoidaGT]

Hi Everyone

I'm new to this forum and I'm seeking some guidance.
I have a Breville BES900 and I'm having pressure issues at the group head.
I'm lucky to get 1 Bar of pressure, sometimes no pressure at all.
I have checked the solenoid and it looks brand new on the inside, no build up at all (was serviced and descaled last year).
I have no leaks and have now tightened the OPV to its tightest setting.
I have checked all the hoses and they are free of blockages.
I can here the brew boiler constantly boiling (loud) even 20 minutes after switching the machine off.
When I turn the hot water on, it just dribbles out.
I suspect I have a blockage somewhere and not sure of they way to test.

Any suggestions?

[level3ninja]

Is the 1bar with a blind filter / rubber disc or with coffee?

[PoidaGT]

Is the 1bar with a blind filter / rubber disc or with coffee?

1 bar with the rubber disc.

[level3ninja]

Any water entering the drip tray during the shot or only after?

[pcrussell50]

It's possible that water is backflowing under heat and pressure. with the machine warmed up, your boiler gurgling and bubbling as you describe, and the top off, so be careful:

You want to remove the back covers and move the computer out of your way so you can see and feel the tubes under the main pump (don't confuse it with the steam pump). (Also, this is actually quite easy. All screws are easily accessible). If the tubes on the bottom of the pump are hot, water is backflowing through the pump and it shouldn't be. This would be the good news, because the pump is easy to change and you could do one with a brass neck and do a brass OPV while you're at it.

There are a couple of other more remote possibilities that would be bad, but I've never heard of them actually happening on these machines.

-Peter

[PoidaGT]

It's possible that water is backflowing under heat and pressure. with the machine warmed up, your boiler gurgling and bubbling as you describe, and the top off, so be careful:

You want to remove the back covers and move the computer out of your way so you can see and feel the tubes under the main pump (don't confuse it with the steam pump). (Also, this is actually quite easy. All screws are easily accessible). If the tubes on the bottom of the pump are hot, water is backflowing through the pump and it shouldn't be. This would be the good news, because the pump is easy to change and you could do one with a brass neck and do a brass OPV while you're at it.

There are a couple of other more remote possibilities that would be bad, but I've never heard of them actually happening on these machines.

-Peter

Hey Peter
i think you're on the money.
i tested the main water pump and the water only dribbles out at a very slow pace but the motor is buzzing away. Looks like a new water pump for me.

Cheers Guys, thanks for your help.

Pete

[Therin83]

Hi Peter, thanks for your responses to my questions here.

I've seen you make this point a couple of times:

Of course, _any_ commercial or prosumer machine, you are into seriously big $$$ if you don't feed it safe water like the coffee shops do their machines. There is no reason the home BDB owner can't do the same. I do.

I'm wondering how exactly you go about this? Is it economical?

And thanks everyone else for your responses and ideas

[pcrussell50]

Hi Peter, thanks for your responses to my questions here.

I've seen you make this point a couple of times:



I'm wondering how exactly you go about this? Is it economical?

And thanks everyone else for your responses and ideas

It is an extra element of tedium that you add to your life. But nothing compared to dealing with problems with your machine. Scale is bad business. Once it gets into small places you can never really quite get it all out. Have a think for a minute, why all the expensive machines many BDB users aspire to, don't have a "descaling" function. In their mindset, it would be added complexity to machines that already take plenty of time and expense to keep running. Just because something is made of brass, doesn't mean it won't leak, corrode, scale, need adjustment, get stuck, or need new seals. Everything does. Not just the BDB.

Your options for zero or no scale water:
1) distilled/deionised/demineralized water obviously has no Ca or Mg to cause scaling. But it's not safe to use as is over long periods because the water level sensors need some amount of"stuff" in the water in order to conduct their signals, (this goes for any proper espresso machine). But if you add 100mg or so per liter of potassium bicarbonate (you can use sodium bicarbonate too), you will give your machine sensors what they need, and sill have no Ca or Mg to cause scale. Potassium bicarb is used in home beer and wine making. You can get it at stores that sell supplies for that, or else online.

2) You can get a miniature version of what the shops use: a softening filter system. For home use, these will be smaller than an RO system, and fit under the kitchen sink. In the USA, they are a little over $100 USD for various brands and styles. I use this one: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/3m-...BoCeboQAvD_BwE The filters are expensive, about $50USD every six months, but quick and to change. I almost bought this one: https://www.chriscoffee.com/Water-So...p/softsysg.htm The filters are cheap, but wetter/messier to change. You could also put together this system on your own from bits at your plumbing or large home supply store as it's non proprietary. If you have a favorite coffee shop and they are friendly, ask the manager what they use. It will probably be bigger than what you want, (though not necessarily), but he ought to be able to point you to the restaurant/beverage equipment store they use.

3) Go to La Marzocco's web site. If you bought a GS/3 or a Linea Mini, they would have resources to guide you to water that is safe for their machines. In the USA, they list some brands of bottled water that are suitable. I would be surprised if they don't do the same for Australia. Which leads me to the part I've been avoiding... It's possible to have _some_ Ca or Mg and be at little or no risk for scale, depending on the pH of the water. Some bottled waters will have some Ca and Mg yet they may still be OK. I do not have the expertise to advise you in that. But there is a "water" sub forum on home-barista.com forums. You could post your water composition there and see what they say.

Me? We live between two houses. In one, I use the 3M Espresso filter as per number (2). In the other, I mix my own as per number (1). In both cases there is certainty about no Ca or Mg. Doesn't mean you can't be perfectly safe with option (3). Many people are.

And finally, you may live in an area where the city water is perfectly fine. Shouldn't be too much trouble to send a sample off for testing every now and then for peace of mind, as some cities switch around suppliers from time to time.

HTH.

-Peter

[sacasable]

Hi - I'm new here. I bought a BDB about 6 months ago and all has been good until some recent issues. I've tried to look through the forum for solutions but couldnt find my issues so thought I'd post and ask for help!
When the machine is switched off, it is still hot and the boiler for the steam appears to be always on. I'm pretty sure this wasnt always the case and assume its not supposed to be like this? I'm worried this is a) draining electricity and b) probably not good for the machine.
In case it's relevant, the clip that holds down the water tank flap has come loose so i need to weigh down the flap... I doubt its related but thought i'd better mention it in case.
Any tips or similar experience would be very helpful!
Cheers

[AGP]

Hi Folks, I am new to this site. I have had my machine since 2012 and it is in need of a bit of TLC. The machine looks to be leaking from the OPV. Has anyone replaced the plastic OPV or upgraded it to a more robust in a simple DIY manner? I have not tried to remove or look into exactly how it is leaking at this stage I just opened the machine up to see what was going on inside. The fact that it is tripping the earth leakage protection at the house now and then makes me kind of keen to fix the leak.

Since water has been leaking down onto the pump for a while is there a new pump with brass fitting and brass OPV that I could use and turf the plastic OPV all together? Anyone know what part numbers to look for or a good guide I can follow?

[inorog]

hey AGP,

If you do a search for brass OPV in this thread and in the BES920 thread - you'll find what you're looking for. (unlike U2! )

[sacasable]

Bump - just wondering whether anyone has any tips or similar experience of the issue above.. essentially even when I switch the machine off (but it’s still plugged in), the milk froth boiler stays on.
not sure if this is supposed to be the case - I don’t remember it being so before a few weeks ago.
Thanks
sac

[gmeddy]

Bump - just wondering whether anyone has any tips or similar experience of the issue above.. essentially even when I switch the machine off (but it’s still plugged in), the milk froth boiler stays on.
not sure if this is supposed to be the case - I don’t remember it being so before a few weeks ago.
Thanks
sac

Sounds like a problem with the computer. I doubt there’s any fix other than a new board.
Mine can’t remember programmed button times, always stops after a few seconds regardless of the set time. So I always use manual.
Another problem mine has is that if it is ever switched off at wall or unplugged, when it’s turned on again the brew pump will start running and pump out water from brew head. Only way to stop it doing that is to turn it on while holding the 4 buttons in to put it into service mode. From there I can exit and it will behave.
I asked about it here once before and didn’t get any responses.
My guess is like I said at the outset.
You could try my trick and turn it on while holding the 4 buttons, then exit the service mode. Maybe from then on the steam boiler might behave... [emoji848]