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  • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    forum n00b - or longtime lurker really - here; howdy.

    Has anyone had difficulties with varying 2-shot volume? (or do you use manual...)

    Fairly frequently (which is maybe 1 in every 4 or 5 shots) I have to turn the shot off manually as its headed way over volume.  Most often this happens if the shot timer is headed over maybe 35 sec, sometimes less.  The rest of the time it cuts off nicely at around 60ml, no problem.

    Ive tried the reset a couple of times, hasnt helped.  Once I put a measuring cup under a freshly-used puck & let a second "double" run ... I was just about to stop it when it stopped itself, at 150ml, after nearly 70 sec.

    Bar pressure is steady 9bars (it was 12+ till I had it adjusted).  18g VST basket.

    Is it me or is it the machine?  :-/

    Comment


    • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

      Originally posted by 4E464F414C41230 link=1312978609/750#750 date=1320668755
      Is it me or is it the machine?
      Welcome here Bob.

      It is both. This is why we dont use super autos. we like to be able to overule the machine. A case of our skill against a mindless machine.

      Following what Phil McKnight of Breville does, I use the manual method. I use the shot clock and balance time and volume. I fiddle with the grinder with the aim to get it right.

      As I have over a dozen different green beans to roast I mix and match my single origins and blends and I have to do a bit of fiddling to get great coffee.

      This morning I used some Indian Malabar Monsooned beans. Not my most favourite.

      What coffee are you using?

      Barry

      Comment


      • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

        Hi Barry

        So I should ignore the 1cup/2cup auto volume options and do it manually, okaay.

        When I think of super autos I think of something that autogrinds, doses, tamps, brews & froths the cappa milk all in one hit.  Im dead against all that, I agree manual is way better, I just thought I was eliminating some of the brewing variables by using the 2-shot button.

        But if Phil recommends against it, Ill use the manual one.  Or maybe I should adjust the 2-shot preset to a bit more than I want, then use 2-shot manually so I get the benefit of consistent pre-infusion, and a manual turn-off when appearance/time/volume look good.  Which is, I guess, pretty much what Im having to do now, as I sure cant turn away for a few seconds knowing itll reliably stop by itself.

        FWIW Im using the Smart Grinder - er, my third in 6 weeks, not a good look Breville - and (a) it must have been pre-shimmed, I requested that, as I have the fineness about 4 notches shy of its finest setting, and (b) I have the volume set at just under 4 (yes 4) shots, in order to get enough volume for the 18g basket.  I presume its timer or whatever they use is out of whack due to the shims. Heavy tamp, a good 30kg or more.  Havent weighed my doses as I dont have any decent scales.

        Coffee: I get beans from my favourite cafe here in Auckland - Bambinas custom blend of Allpress beans, direct from the Bambina hopper to take home, about 250g which does me for about 6 days.  I have no idea what sort of beans they are.

        Despite trying to lock down many of the variables, I still get a big range of shot times.  Most often around 28-30 sec, but sometimes 25, sometimes 45, & I cant see what Im doing significantly different.  Does bean freshness & humidity play THAT big a part, is that why dialling in daily is important?

        cheers

        Comment


        • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

          Originally posted by 6A626B656865070 link=1312978609/752#752 date=1320708025
          I have the volume set at just under 4 (yes 4) shots, in order to get enough volume for the 18g basket
          Is there a reason youre not using the portafilter cradle in the Smart Grinder?

          Dose amount is determined by the presence (or not) of the portafilter cradle. It determines if youve inserted the portafilter cradle through "smart magnets" or somesuch.

          Comment


          • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

            Originally posted by 4D454C424F42200 link=1312978609/752#752 date=1320708025
            Does bean freshness & humidity play THAT big a part, is that why dialling in daily is important?
            Day to day I dont adjust my grind hardly at all. Im guessing you have other inconsistencies in your technique.
            Do you know the roast date of the beans you are buying? by the results you are describing they sound stale.
            Do you let your machine heat up for a good 30 minutes at least before pulling a shot?
            When do you star timing the shot?
            How consistent is your tamping? (I think you are tamping way too hard by the way)
            Is your dosing consistent? dont rely on the grinder to dose for you, check it by eye.

            Comment


            • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

              Originally posted by 4F5D5154555B545059453C0 link=1312978609/753#753 date=1320710135
              Is there a reason youre not using the portafilter cradle in the Smart Grinder?

              Dose amount is determined by the presence (or not) of the portafilter cradle. It determines if youve inserted the portafilter cradle through "smart magnets" or somesuch.
              Hi Toasty, thanks for answering.

              I thought the dose amount was determined by the dose amount controls on the front.

              How could it tell the dosing from the mere presence of a portafilter, it doesnt read the basket size surely, how would it know if I have a 14/15g vs a 18g basket in there?

              I havent been using the portafilter holder because I was concerned that in my initial dialling in of the grind dosing Id have grinds falling off the sides.  Thats to be expected in normal use, but I wanted to get my dose settings as good as possible first.  My plan was to get a reliable first measure of the dosing using the container; when I have settled on a reliable setting then I leave it at that setting and use the portafilter.

              I hope that makes sense!

              Comment


              • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                Melbob

                Here is one of Phil’s videos where he uses the manual button.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4ByyUmZT28&feature=related

                If you can get the right dose size with the other buttons. Ok, use them. However I think that the settings are more on time than volume which is harder for a machine to measure and the coffee flow varies depending on freshness, grind size, tamp, humidity and other variables.

                Originally posted by 5157404B51564E4C250 link=1312978609/754#754 date=1320710689
                Do you let your machine heat up for a good 30 minutes at least before pulling a shot?
                I don’t think it is necessary to warm up the BDB for 30 min as unlike many other machines, it has the group heated with an element and controlled with a PID. The temp shown on the display is that of the group. However warm up the cups with hot water and a flush of the group head just before use is recommended by Phil.

                Whatever you do, it is the result you get in the cup that counts.

                Barry

                Comment


                • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                  The grinder changes its operation mode when the PF holder is inserted. Put it in and give it a go, should all be good. You can still place the PF on the bottom of the grinds tray (below the holder) if you are worried about grinds spilling out, but in reality grinds fall out vary rarely, and when they do its a tiny amount.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                    Originally posted by 6F676E606D60020 link=1312978609/755#755 date=1320712886
                    How could it tell the dosing from the mere presence of a portafilter
                    I believe it uses magnets to determine whether youve got the 50-54mm or 58mm portafilter holder inserted, but beyond that, obviously, it cant tell what basket youve got in there.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                      Originally posted by 2F293E352F2830325B0 link=1312978609/754#754 date=1320710689
                      Day to day I dont adjust my grind hardly at all.  Im guessing you have other inconsistencies in your technique.
                      Thats what Im looking for too - and Im sure youre right

                      Originally posted by 2F293E352F2830325B0 link=1312978609/754#754 date=1320710689
                      Do you know the roast date of the beans you are buying? by the results you are describing they sound stale.
                      Do you think so?  I always buy a coffee at the same time, exactly the same beans (from the same grinder hopper), they are a "good" coffee shop so I figure the ones they are serving at the time must be good for a few days - and theirs tastes just lovely.

                      Originally posted by 2F293E352F2830325B0 link=1312978609/754#754 date=1320710689
                      Do you let your machine heat up for a good 30 minutes at least before pulling a shot?  When do you star timing the shot?
                      At least 30 mins; this is always using the machines timer i.e. from hitting the go button

                      Originally posted by 2F293E352F2830325B0 link=1312978609/754#754 date=1320710689
                      How consistent is your tamping? (I think you are tamping way too hard by the way). Is your dosing consistent? dont rely on the grinder to dose for you, check it by eye.
                      Im trying to be very consistent, doesnt mean I am.  I think I am tamping too hard too, but (a) the booklet recommends 30kg I think? (b) I do even more because I got frustrated at ever increasing dose/fineness in order to get shots over 30 sec.

                      Im relying on the grinder to give me a repeatable amount, but I always visually check the tamp silver/black line against the portafilter when tamping.  I think Im still dosing a little high, as a (NZ 10c) coin gets pressed half into the coffee.  So I tamp harder.  If I put in less coffee I get 25 sec shots.  If I increase grind fineness I get 40+ sec shots.  Aargh. :-[

                      Comment


                      • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                        Ok Im going to
                        (a) grind direct to the portafilter
                        (b) tamp with less pressure.  Er, put a little shoulder into it but not so I lift my foot off the ground  ;D
                        (c) Try a few other bean sources - theres a couple of other places around here that do coffee Ill drink.  Not many though

                        No-one else has commented on the 2-shot volumes, does anyone else have occasional wild fluctuations or are you all doing it manually (put it another way: do I get this looked at as the equipment presumably should not be fluctuating like this; or dont bother as I cant live without it and dont need the button?  Actually I could live without it as I still have my old Silvia. But I dont want to.)

                        Comment


                        • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                          Stick with it. You will get there. I think that the Bes900 has much more going for it than than your old Sylvia. Just a matter of getting the hang of it.

                          Barry

                          Comment


                          • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                            melbob,

                            As others have mentioned here, the grinder does change "modes" when the PF cradle is not being used.

                            Tamp with ~15kg of force each time, or at least a pressure with some consistency if less than 15kgs.

                            The cap on the tamper should be level with the top edge of the filter basket AFTER tamping. Do not try & adjust your tamp to get this height, adjust the amount being put into the basket to begin with.

                            The espresso should start to drop between 11 & 14secs on the shot clock. This is a very good indication you are in the ball park in terms of dose & grind size, Tweak from this point.

                            The volumetric buttons will vary with the volume they can consistently deliver depending on the rate of flow. If you set them with one flow rate, you wont get the same delivered volume if you then extract at a different flow rate. Thats just how these volumetric flow meters work. Doesnt matter whether its a BES900 or a LM Linea, they have this particular limitation. Personally I much prefer to use the manual button to control the length of the shot.

                            Hope this helps.

                            Cheers, Phil

                            Comment


                            • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                              Okay, thanks everyone for very good advice.  My results:

                              Grinder: I swapped the container for the PF.  Grinder immediately resets itself to 2 shots.  I run with that dose: just fine, looks about the same qty as I was getting before when I used the container set to nearly 4 shots.  Conclusion: just use the PF, like everyone else <well, duh>

                              Tamping: a bit less pressure, Im guessing 15-20kg.  All Manual shot.  Coffee: as good as any Ive done, just lovely.  3 in a row now all good

                              Originally posted by 717F7772757B74686C1C0 link=1312978609/762#762 date=1320732940
                              The espresso should start to drop between 11 & 14secs on the shot clock. This is a very good indication you are in the ball park in terms of dose & grind size
                              ...
                              Personally I much prefer to use the manual button to control the length of the shot.
                              Using the 2-shot button, it was consistently appearing at about 11 sec.  But (confused) isnt the manual buttons pre-infusion time entirely up to your finger - you hold the button for as much pre-infusion as you want, then let go & the full flow comes out, then press it again to stop?  Therefore dose & grind arent indicated so much as your trigger finger timing?  I suspect I am missing something simple here or (quite likely) just cant follow plain instructions. :

                              thanks again

                              Comment


                              • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                                Originally posted by 6C646D636E63010 link=1312978609/763#763 date=1320834441
                                But (confused) isnt the manual buttons pre-infusion time entirely up to your finger
                                ...
                                I suspect I am missing something simple here or (quite likely) just cant follow plain instructions
                                Ha.  i was missing something & I cant follow instructions.  Manual pre-infusion is only if you hold your finger on the button, tap it instead and you get the automatic pre-infusion.

                                Got there in the end!

                                Comment

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