Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[Roz]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

In my mid twenties and I spend Friday night at home playing with my new espresso machine whilst my other half is in bed early.... Im getting old  ;D

Wally - You would be mad not to keep using the Macap M4D as your main grinder, considering these retail for around $1.2K? Its considered one of the best grinders in its class and will last you many many years. You should put your smart grinder aside for brewed coffee or it will make a really nice gift for a birthday or Xmas.

So back to what Ive done tonight, Ive only had a brief play

Something that I only noticed when I returned home that the front facsica had some light scratches, about a thumb prints worth of small light ones near the guage that is only viewable upclose and only when there is reflection, annoying but obviously not affecting shot quality  are they meant to scratch easy?

It took me 4 shots to get a shot that tasted of equal quality to that of my silvia, the crema was quite a bit lighter than my silvia but it still had some slight mottiling and the taste was good, it was thinning out towards the end of the shot and this was a 7sec / 30sec - 60ml double using my synesso at 20g. It was reading 11.5bar on the guage and I had to grind quite a bit finer to get this shot.

The first shot was bang on 9bar but was a 7sec / 20sec shot using the same dose and was definitely under extracted.

Ill have to try a shot by shot comparison when I have time to note down the grind settings. Im keen to play more on the weekend as I try to see if I can nail down a quality shot that precedes the silvia as it should. Maybe a good extraction that reads 9bar is achievable but I know this is only really a guide as others have said about the gauge reading above 9.

I pulled a shot after the good one for a taste with milk, The milk texture was fairly good, only really small bubbles, better than my silvia but it will need refining as I now can have the pitcher upright instead of on an angle to get decent microfoam.

Performed my usual water backflush that I would with the silvia without a problem, the group cleans up nicely with little effort.

So Overall Im fairly happy, with more time I think it will be a lot better.

Here are some pics of it next to the silvia, the scratch and its new home in the corner next to the sink, my other half has called it my new pacifier.

Cheers,
R0s

[artman]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Its nice seeing these beasts "in the wild" at peoples homes!!

My brother in law just picked one up, cant wait to have a play with it and sample the coffee.

Cheers

[>mcknightp]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Ive tried to follow the tamping advice Ive read here and Ive found that with the 11g in the single basket, when I tamp the tamper "bottoms out" on the tapered wall of the basket, even with moderate tamping force. The coffee is nice and evenly pressed etc, but the extent to which the coffee can be compressed is limited by the basket walls.  With the dual basket, the walls are more vertical and so its totally up the the person how much to compress the coffee. Should I try adding a bit more coffee? Actually I tried this but then the 5c test failed so to speak.

I have found that adjusting the grind even a small amount on the microstepped Macap affects the pressure when the shot is pulled. Originally it was around 12 and the coffee seemed to ooze out nicely. Then I made the grind a little coarser and the pressure was 9 but the coffee came out what seemed a little faster and blonded earlier and didnt taste as good. So seems like I should aim for the gauge showing 11-12?

Wally, I get the best results with the single basket when I up-dose it with ~13g of coffee. Dont worry about it touching the dispersion screen. I also get better results with the single when I have the pre-infusion pressure duration set to ~10secs instead of the default 7secs for the single. Let taste be your guide to dose amount, flow rate and length of extraction. Personally I like to set dose for a particular coffee based on origin, degree of roast & its age, then holding dose & tamp pressure constant, adjust grind size to optimise flavour. You should have a level tamp with pressure at least 15kg. Try not to get hung up on the outdated principles of 25ml in 25secs etc. Even the WBC have relaxed these words to allow taste to be the dominant factor.

Having said all this, I get the best results with either one side of a double basket or a double ristretto. I havent used a single basket for 10 years....until I started to work for Breville, commercially, theyre just not used.

Cheers, Phil

[>mcknightp]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

the crema was quite a bit lighter than my silvia but it still had some slight mottiling and the taste was good, it was thinning out towards the end of the shot and this was a 7sec / 30sec - 60ml double using my synesso at 20g. It was reading 11.5bar on the guage and I had to grind quite a bit finer to get this shot.

ROs, sounds to me like the temp was a little low. You might need to purge a bit longer before extracting. Press & hold the 2 cup button to purge with the shot clock active on the LCD, then note the purge time, extract & taste. Adjust purge time or programmed temp until you reach the flavour potential you expect.

Scratch.......Ive opened up a lot of these from the factory in the last 2 weeks & I havent seen any probs as pictured on either the AU stock or the US production. Can I ask where you bought it?

Cheers, Phil

[ianbooth]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Having said all this, I get the best results with either one side of a double basket or a double ristretto. I havent used a single basket for 10 years....until I started to work for Breville, commercially, theyre just not used.

Thanks for the great advice about dosing etc. With regards to the above comment - dumb question of the week: when you say one side of a double basket, do you mean putting the cup under one spout and just letting the flow from the other side go straight into the drip tray? (assuming I only want the one cup).

[>mcknightp]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

do you mean putting the cup under one spout and just letting the flow from the other side go straight into the drip tray? (assuming I only want the one cup).

Wally, exactly.

Cheers, Phil

[ianbooth]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Having said all this, I get the best results with either one side of a double basket or a double ristretto.

I just tried the second suggestion - I used a double basket with 18g of coffee and hit the single cup button. I think thats what I was supposed to do. Anyway, the coffee definitely had a sour taste to it so I guess it was underextracted, which sort of makes sense given he normal shot time for a double is much longer? As I type this, its been 30 minutes since I made the shot and I still have a sour aftertaste.

Yesterday I did actually try the first idea - I put two cups either side of a double basket. It tasted ok but was a bit weak.

Next Ill try the suggestion to increase the pre-infusion time for a single shot and increasing the dose to 13g.

Thanks again for all the help.

[ianbooth]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Wally - You would be mad not to keep using the Macap M4D as your main grinder, considering these retail for around $1.2K? Its considered one of the best grinders in its class and will last you many many years. You should put your smart grinder aside for brewed coffee or it will make a really nice gift for a birthday or Xmas.

I only got the Macap 2nd hand and the BCG800 seemed to be getting a lot of positive press on this site so thought I would check. The Breville says it automatically adjusts the dose when you change the grind which the Macap doesnt do(?) but perhaps this isnt that important? I dont really need a 2nd grinder so may well just attempt to sell it.

[dr.a.j.pickering]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I have got it!
Have been messing with for about an hour, clearly need to dial in a bit better but first impressions good. I will be back with more comments but now its arrived they could be less often

[Nav]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Well after a long night of work, I drove out to Sylvania to pickup our machine from cuppacoffee. I gotta say, I am extremely pleased with the machine. Just got home and set it up about 45 minutes ago, and managed to get one beautiful cup out of the machine (after 3 attempts at tuning in).

Coming from using a cafe roma, this machine was a massive upgrade. Ive got another long night of work tonight, so am looking forward to the countless cups of coffee Ill be going through.

The one issue I am experiencing (which is probably due to over-dosing) is that when I remove the portafilter from the group head, the spent puck sticks to the shower screen. This seems to happen regardless of how little I dose.

Nav

[dr.a.j.pickering]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

group head, the spent puck sticks to the shower screen.

This seems to happen to me when its under dosed

[argus]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

....Youre not doing anything wrong, so long as your coffee is tasting OK. On some longer extractions, the cake seems to get stuck to the dispersion screen as there is some negative pressure being created when the 3 way solenoid opens to the drain as the solenoid is inverted. This is more pronounced with the 900 baskets as they have quite a taper & the puck releases very easily. If you switch to baskets with more parallel sides like the Synesso ridgeless or Marzocco or VST, then this doesnt happen at all. Use the cap on the supplied tamper as a guide to dose height.

Cheers, Phil

[Roz]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I managed to fluke what I would consider a ristretto this morning, about 30ml in the same time as last night using the same grind (it was a lot cooler in the house this morning) I tasted it expecting it to be horribly bitter and over exracted but what I got was a delicious shot with slightly more acidity a lot more kick and the biggest caffeine hit Ive ever had from a shot of coffee. Ive only been drinking espresso for about 2 months now so my palette is still adjusting to it but I can say I enjoy and appreciate good coffee more than I ever had since I started drinking espresso.

Adjusted the grind and pulled another double for a latte, milk was easy as last night, quality from the steam is far beyond the wet steam that is produced by a silvia.

[Pavoniboy]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Okay, so a week into using my BES900 and I’m ready to put in a review.

Firstly, I have to commend Dennis at Cuppacoffee for terrific communication and service throughout the buying process.

Now the machine was well packaged and easy to open. Very quick and easy to get onto the bench and up and running. Placing the filters and other paraphernalia in the water reservoir ensures the user realises to install a filter before filling the reservoir.

The machine appears very well built from the outside. It is very neat and seems sturdy enough. All the buttons, dials and the guage seem well fitted and operate smoothly. The paddle on the steam wand would feel a whole lot better if it was metal though. The portafilter is nice and heavy and seems well made and fits into the machine in a reassuringly sturdy manner. It all feels quality above what you would ever expect from an “appliance” company. But this is what I expected of this purchase too, given the price and the reviews that had come before it.

The machine has a great large sized reservoir and very convenient section at the top front of the machine to fill the reservoir without having to remove it. Visibility of water level is also superb from the window at the front and the LED that creates a shimmer on the water surface.

The machine was very fast to reach temperature, however I am finding it is still best to let it warm up for at least 30 mins for optimal results. I leave the portafilter in as loosely as possible so it heats up as well and don’t have to run the hot water tap as much to warm up everything. I still use the hot water tap to warm my cup as the cup warmer only takes the chill off the cups rather than making them hot, at least on these winter mornings anyway.

A lot of the little ‘added extras’ that don’t add to the result in the cup, certainly add to the pleasure of using the machine. The built in clock and auto turn on feature so I can have the machine turn on 30 mins before I wake up. The built in shot timer. The retractable wheels to move the machine around the benchtop for cleaning etc. and yet sits firmly in place with the wheels retracted. The easy to fill reservoir as mentioned. The large drip tray with very easy to empty ‘spout’ section and the tray that hides behind it that holds all your tools and spare baskets. It really is a well thought out machine that is a pleasure to use.

Before getting onto what’s in the cup I’ll give some background first as requested by Chris. My coffee history starts with supermarket coffee in a plunger, followed by stovetop moka pot. Then onto a low range Sunbeam espresso appliance and discovering fresh beans but having them ground in 200g lots as I had no grinder. Upgraded to a 2nd hand Imat Junior (a previous incarnation of the present day Lelit/Mokita etc.) and then paired that with the EMO480 grinder when it was released. I then went onto my Pavoni europiccola and a Fiorenzato Doge grinder and, of course, home roasting.

Now the BES900 certainly has it when it comes to what’s in the cup. I have been producing amazing espresso, very rich and even creamy espresso with a very broad flavour profile. It really allows for a lot of the beans nuances to shine through. The best shots I have managed to pull on this machine rival anything I have had anywhere. I’m still practising on being able to pull those sort of shots more often though. That being said, I am consistently getting very good shots already. It is an easy machine to get good coffee from.

I should mention I’ve been using an espresso blend from Cuppacoffee that came complimentary with the machine which is a Ugandan Bugisu and PNG Kimel Grade A blend, and some of my home roasted Yemen Mocha Ismail. And grinding with my Fiorenzato Doge. I’m using a VST 18g basket with fitted Pullman Barista tamper. A plug for Pullman tampers here too – great to do business with and an amazing quality product.

The temperature stability of the machine seems flawless. I have only been using the preset 93 degrees so far whilst I learn the machine but it seems flawless to me, producing incredible results in the cup. I am excited about learning to play with different temps with different beans in the future. And this sort of temperature stability is a godsend coming from the Pavoni where everything revolves around and hangs upon pulling the shot at exactly the right time to get the right temp for extraction, and after two shots there’s no more unless you like burned espresso.

The BES900 is an amazing luxury for me in that I can walk up to the machine at any time and pull an espresso at perfect temp, and can pull as many shots in a row as I am likely to ever need whilst steaming milk simultaneously. I still love my Pavoni, but I must say the BES900 has taken over in a big way. It produces a far richer and bolder espresso than the Pavoni and the Imat previously, which also allows for more flavours to shine through on the pallete.

Now the steam was disappointing in power for me. Having used some E-61 type machines in the past I was expecting steam to be similar if not even more powerful. This is not the case. However, that being said, it seems I cannot help but get really good microfoam from this machine. I think I would have to try very hard to get bad microfoam. It is really easy to use and produces great results, and since it’s a home machine with no need to keep up to a line of customer’s demands, a lack of power really is a small complaint.

Overall, I love this machine. I am producing consistently great espresso with the occasional shot that rivals anything I have ever had. I know this machine can put the goods in the cup. It is also an absolute pleasure to use with all the added extras. It is only one week in, but I have had absolutely no problems with the machine’s operation. It appears well built from the outside, I am willing to take the word of others on this forum who have seen the insides that it is also well built on the inside. The machine is simply great value for money. In my mind the kind of machine to better  the BES900 would be something like the Alex Duetto which costs a whole lot more, and even still would probably be a very similar quality result in the cup. I can’t help but recommend this machine to people who are thinking about it as their next machine.

Below is some shots of my setup along with a glimpse of my view whilst I prepare my coffee (and that is on a dark rainy day!), and some pour shots. I found the pour shots a bit difficult, as I attempted to start the (coffee) shot and then quickly setup the (camera) shot, so the focus ended up more on the backplate than the espresso pour.

[TC]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Great review Pavoniboy. Thanks!

There has been plenty of criticism spread thickly since news of this machine went public. Far too much of this had nothing to do with the machine.

Im delighted to see the first few runs on the board and am looking forward to reading further contributions from the growing club of owners.

Chris