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  • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    Originally posted by 4B445D4A4A411C280 link=1312978609/1274#1274 date=1327355111
    People should not post instructions if they are not qualified to do so..
    Its not that I disagree with you, but I think the floodgates are well and truly open. Instructions on how to modify everything from a shower screen screw to fiddling around inside a multitude of appliances to alter them from their intended purpose are everywhere.

    I dont think adding a caveat like "this could be dangerous" should make it ok either.
    Sometimes, the posts come from people who are very qualified while at other times, the posts come from nominees for the Darwin Awards.

    This machine hasnt been out for 12 months and there shouldnt be a need to descale it yet, paricularly if you have been using the filters recommended by Breville. When the time comes for a descale, the machine will tell you - and then it needs to go to an authorised service centre.

    Comment


    • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

      DO NOT do what has been suggested below. The product is NOT able to be de-scaled by the user.

      The steam boiler is NOT connected to the hot water tap. The steam boiler is a closed circuit from the tank to the steam valve.

      If you fill your steam boiler with de-scale, whatever that may be, you will not be able to comletely remove it, no matter how many times you purge from the steam wand, you will not be able to flush out 450ml of de-scale solution.

      If you have filled your machine with de-scale solution, then please take it to an authorised service centre & ask them to drain it for you. This does involve removing panels and probes from the boiler & is NOT something we recommend you do.

      If you replace the carbon resin filter in the water tank every 2 months as we recommend, then our testing shows it will be approx 3 years before you need to have the machine de-scaled. Prevention is the key, so dont skimp on the filters, especially if you know you live in an area with hard water.

      Cheers, Phil



      Originally posted by 4443494145534B444D2A0 link=1312978609/1269#1269 date=1327317092
      Hi All,

      I just want to give you my two cents about how to clean my BDB. My methods may not be very correct but just want to listen your comments on it.

      1. How do I descale BDB?
      a. I prefer descale BDB before any limecale is formed. Try to use the descaler which can resolve the limescale otherwise the limescale debris may stock the OPV, vibe pump and the 3-way solenoid valve. The descaler solution should not make any foam.

      b. Fill the tank with descaler solution, turn on BDB and wait it warm up. Drain the steam boiler by openning the hot water ward. This process is ended until you think the descaler solution has been filled in the steam boiler.

      c. And then make several shots to flush the brew boiler with the descaler solution pumped from the tank.

      d. Take out the tank, empty the descaler solution and re-fill with clean water. Repeat flush cycle procedure b and c several times and end when the descaler solution has been completely flushed with clean water.

      2. How do I clean the group head?
      a. Follow the "clean me" instruction and use the clean disc with the clean tablet to flush the group head. With this method, you can see the boiler pressure goes up but would not reach the OPV set point. The whole process will flush the group head with the detergent solution and drain the solution from the portafilter but not from the 3-way solenoid valve to the drip tray directly. I doubt the "clean me" process cannot flush the pipe from the group head to the drip tray via the solenoid valve. Also, if you use the detergent powder instead of the tablet, you will not see the boiler pressure goes up during the "clean me" process.

      b. To flush from group head to the drip tray via the solenoid valve, put detergent powder in the blind basket. Contineously press 1-cup or 2-cup button to make a shot and see the boiler pressure going up until it is going to reach the OPV set point and then release the button immediately. You will see the detergent solution is drained out to the drip tray directly; repeat this procedure several times.

      c. Repeat above procedure b without detergent put in the blind basket until you believe there is no detergent solution drained out. Flush the group head without the portafiler several times to end the processes.

      Disclaimer: Please be very careful in perfroming this group head cleaning procedure b and c becasue the detergent solution may be flushed back to the water tank and then primed into brew boiler if the boiler pressure reaches the OPV set point.

      Regards,

      Nick OY

      Comment


      • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

        Originally posted by 353B3336313F302C28580 link=1312978609/1276#1276 date=1327363832
        DO NOT do what has been suggested below. The product is NOT able to be de-scaled by the user. If you have filled your machine with de-scale solution, then please take it to an authorised service centre & ask them to drain it for you.
        Possibly the best reason not to buy one; specifically designed to not be serviceable by the user/owner, and even then, requiring the use of proprietary and disposable softening cartridges. How difficult would it have been to put a "descaling" function into the electronics and a boiler drain? Not very...

        Comment


        • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

          Originally posted by 497A757F62445C351B0 link=1312978609/1277#1277 date=1327365397
          Possibly the best reason not to buy one; specifically designed to not be serviceable by the user/owner
          Just like most appliances in the home eg. fridge, dishwasher, tv, breadmaker, etc. Why should this one be any different

          Comment


          • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

            Ummmm, yeah, sorry to invite the flood through the gates. That talk about descaling and the method used sounds like a horrible idea.

            For what its worth, I did not refer to descaling at all.

            And Im still wondering if Phil could answer my question about the efficacy of a fully manual backflush -- blind filter with Cafiza (or similar) and pulsing the pump ~5 times to get the pressure up to 9 bar then doing the same with clean water, and rinsing it all out.

            Thanks guys and gals.

            Still pretty smitten with the machine...

            Comment


            • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

              Originally posted by 00333C362B0D157C520 link=1312978609/1277#1277 date=1327365397
              Possibly the best reason not to buy one; specifically designed to not be serviceable by the user/owner, and even then, requiring the use of proprietary and disposable softening cartridges. How difficult would it have been to put a "descaling" function into the electronics and a boiler drain? Not very...
              Hard to believe the machine needs to overhaul significantly to descale. I am wondering if that date will be too late three years later as the limescale can erode any joins of metal pieces or plastic joins to cause leakage even after the descaling.

              What will happen to my unit three years later as I am living in Taiwan? It looks like I have to dump the unit into trash can three years later.

              A sophisticated machine designed with many advanced electronics does not mean it has to be overhauled significantly if the descaling had been taken into account since the designing phase to allow users to do it. Many electronic functions of the unit can be "hacked" in the "clean mode" program of the microcontroller for descaling.

              Does Breville plan to sell the unit in very small quantities or how to handle the massive service requests three years later to descale by Breville?

              Regards,

              Nick OY

              Comment


              • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                I dont understand, From my perspective, the average home-user-multi-boiler system is not able to be de-scaled by the home user either. Short of pulling boilers and other bits out, Id imagine itd be tricky to de-scale any Multi-Boiler Espresso machine properly anyway. Because youd need to get the de-scaler up to areas which arent covered by the high-water-mark of the boiler. Yknow, Where the scale develops first


                Why is it so damn difficult for people to understand this?

                if you didnt want a machine that was not able to be de-scaled without pulling it apart, Why on earth did you buy the Breville in the first place? yeesh.

                Comment


                • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                  Originally posted by 32232C2735460 link=1312978609/1279#1279 date=1327369532
                  And Im still wondering if Phil could answer my question about the efficacy of a fully manual backflush -- blind filter with Cafiza (or similar) and pulsing the pump ~5 times to get the pressure up to 9 bar then doing the same with clean water, and rinsing it all out.
                  I am doing it exactly as you mentioned. If you observe the "clean me" procedure, you will realize the solenoid valve is not cleaned by the process. I searched over many HX and DB designs from Internet and tried to do that in my way to approve my thinking to BDB was right in some way.

                  Thanks

                  Nick OY

                  Comment


                  • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                    Originally posted by 705D495B5455525B7D487A5D48593C0 link=1312978609/1281#1281 date=1327370557
                    if you didnt want a machine that was not able to be descaled without pulling it apart, Why on earth did you buy the Breville in the first place? yeesh.
                    To blame a user who is stupid like me to buy a machine that he doesnt think of how it is going to be used and serviced is not fair.

                    Thanks

                    Nick OY

                    Comment


                    • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                      Originally posted by 1A29262C31170F66480 link=1312978609/1277#1277 date=1327365397
                      How difficult would it have been to put a "descaling" function into the electronics and a boiler drain? Not very...
                      Randy,

                      its far more difficult than you might imagine. Of course this was investigated during the design phase of the project, but deemed too difficult & costly. Medium term changes to the product spec will include the ability for the user to drain the boilers without removing any panels etc, but it will be a manual process, not automated.

                      Of course, like any other dual boiler machine it is possible to fill the boilers with de-scale solution & then drain & flush them ready for service, but its not something we cannot endorse the user does themselves, but thats not to say its not possible, like consumers adjusting OPVs......

                      Cheers, Phil

                      Comment


                      • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                        Originally posted by 61707F7466150 link=1312978609/1279#1279 date=1327369532
                        And Im still wondering if Phil could answer my question about the efficacy of a fully manual backflush -- blind filter with Cafiza (or similar) and pulsing the pump ~5 times to get the pressure up to 9 bar then doing the same with clean water, and rinsing it all out.
                        OK, heres my standard procedure for cleaning:

                        After each session: "clear water back-flush"

                        Insert blind filter into PF.
                        Insert into group head
                        Press & hold the 2 cup button for 10 secs, repeat 4-5 times
                        run PF under hot water & wipe out.

                        Every Kg or so

                        Clear Water Back-flush as above, then
                        1/2 scoop caffeto or similar into blind filter
                        insert into group head
                        press & hold 2 cup button for 60secs
                        allow to "soak" for 60secs
                        press & hold 2 cup button for 10 secs, repeat 4-5 times
                        repeat clear water back-flush
                        soak PF (head only, not the handle) in solution of Caffeto & hot water for 10mins, rinse after

                        Cheers, Phil


                        Comment


                        • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                          Originally posted by 404E4643444A45595D2D0 link=1312978609/1284#1284 date=1327378716
                          Of course, like any other dual boiler machine it is possible to fill the boilers with de-scale solution & then drain & flush them ready for service, but its not something we cannot endorse the user does themselves, but thats not to say its not possible, like consumers adjusting OPVs......
                          OBTW Im surprised shapeshifter hasnt got a video of this on her blog yet??? Its less difficult than adjusting the OPV. Nicole, where are you??

                          Cheers, Phil

                          Comment


                          • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                            Originally posted by 606E6663646A65797D0D0 link=1312978609/1276#1276 date=1327363832
                            The steam boiler is NOT connected to the hot water tap. The steam boiler is a closed circuit from the tank to the steam valve.
                            I opened the unit and checked where the hot warter tap goes. I found it connects to brew boiler. If the hot water valve cannot shut the tap off, the brew boiler pressure will not hold.

                            So Phils comment was correct, what I did to descale the steam boiler with citric acid solution cannot completely purge the steam boiler 100% with clean water.

                            Thanks

                            Nick OY

                            Comment


                            • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                              Originally posted by 4D434B4E4947485450200 link=1312978609/1285#1285 date=1327379190
                              1/2 scoop caffeto or similar into blind filterinsert into group headpress & hold 2 cup button for 60secsallow to "soak" for 60secspress & hold 2 cup button for 10 secs, repeat 4-5 times
                              Hi Phil, will the method you mentioned above cause the detergent solution flush back to the water tank because the brew boilers OPV discharges over pressurized water back to water tank? Will with this method the detergent solution contaminate the water tank as the OPV valve will open due to over-pressure?

                              Thanks

                              Nick OY

                              Comment


                              • Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

                                Originally posted by 3C3B31393D2B333C35520 link=1312978609/1287#1287 date=1327385631
                                So Phils comment was correct,
                                Did you expect otherwise

                                Comment

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