Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[Dennis]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I had my old Saeco repaired 3 times in the 10 years I had it and it cost way more than the $200 extended warranty.

Herein lies the biggest problem with extended warranties. When it breaks, you may not have an excuse to get rid of the thing for 10 years! :P ;D ;D

[DavidW1960]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

hahahaha Dennis. TRUE!

[jgniquet]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Are the naked available for the masses now?

[>mcknightp]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Are the naked available for the masses now?

Not yet. Will be the first week of March & will post here & in a separate thread.

Cheers, Phil

[specialpants]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I just wanted to check how everyone was going with their machine.

Ive been using the BES900 for 2~3 weeks now and have the following observations:

- Espresso is not thick and lacks fluffy mouth feel
- Crema is light in colour and doesnt have the darker brown speckling on the surface of the crema.
- Theres something lacking in terms of taste, but I cant put my finger on it... the coffee doesnt jump out and seems lifeless.

I am trying to work out what I can do better/differently. Can any other BES900 owners comment on the above 3 things?

FWIW:
- OPV appears to be set correctly as pressure gauge reads between 9.5 and 10 with a real blind filter
- Im currently using a mazzer mini; double basket for 1 cup
- Im comparing these results using the same beans with my other setup (duetto + kony)

A lot of times when I make a coffee with the Duetto + Kony, I say to myself "wow, what a great coffee!". I am yet to say the same about the coffee from the BES900.

The rotary pump and conical burrs of my other setup probably has something to do with it, but its not very practical to have all my toys in the one spot for side by side testing, so I am keen to hear about your experiences and feedback

[>mcknightp]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Im currently using a mazzer mini; double basket for 1 cup

Theres the difference right there! I have owned several mini Mazzers over the years, mainly for decaf in commercial environments & IMHO decaf is where they belong. I have done several side by side comparisons, using the same LM Linea, same beans, same dose etc & up against a Robur it was chalk & cheese.

Cheers, Phil

[rustic]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

- Im currently using a mazzer mini; double basket for 1 cup
- Im comparing these results using the same beans with my other setup (duetto + kony)

Nice experiment you got going there.

Now Ill just wait patiently for you to post your results for the BES900 + Kony

8-)

Theres the difference right there! I have owned several mini Mazzers over the years, mainly for decaf in commercial environments & IMHO decaf is where they belong. I have done several side by side comparisons, using the same LM Linea, same beans, same dose etc & up against a Robur it was chalk & cheese.

Phil, youve given us the BES900.

Any plans for say a BCG900 (sounds like an appropriate model #) ... a grinder to compete against the higher end models? ;D

[Courierdog]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Just so everyone knows, I live in Edmonton, and we do not use dogsleds except for sport, if and when we have snow. My dealer is in Toronto - 3371 Km, the Distributor is in Montreal - 3590 Km.
I was in the market for a Dual Boiler machine, I was looking at several.
It was down to the IZZO Duetto @$3000 and the GS3 @ $6500
I then read the review of the Breville Dual Boiler. It was a hard thing to realize that everything could be had for $1200.
I have no complaints on the delivered product
I have spent a lot of time and much more coffee in the BDB only few bad shots during my set up. My wife loves the Espresso.
The BDB makes everything so easy and consistent.
I have an 1139..... machine which is set at a nominal 12.5 bar using a blind basket
I obtained the Smart Grinder 1124F series. It required the shim kit and the machine came with zero shims. I added the shims per the instructions and everything is now as described.
After much practice My espresso drops at 12 seconds and a total of 34-38 seconds using 2 cup shot button for  60 ml of excellent espresso.
Using the Double Wall Single Cup basket I read 8 bar after 7-8 Sec
For consistency I use digital scales to establish the weight of the coffee
I use the Espro Calibrated Tamper - 30 lbs
I use the Espro Toroid Pitcher - does and excellent job of ensuring the swirl
I use the VST 15 gm basket
My dealer for the above equipment is in Vancouver - 1160 Km
One good point of Edmonton - 503 Km from the source of our diesel fuel in Ft McMurry Oil Sand project. LOL
I want to thank everyone who has written on their experience with the BDB I enjoy all the comments and the humour.
Now I have to load the Rottweiler and the Chihuahua into the truck and go get some more coffee from a local provider 11 Km
Have a Great Day
Dave

[nickoyang]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Just so everyone knows, I live in Edmonton, and we do not use dogsleds except for sport, if and when we have snow. My dealer is in Toronto - 3371 Km, the Distributor is in Montreal - 3590 Km.

I live in Taipei and I own a BES900XL. I believe your mileages are much shorter than the mileage from Taipei to Australia or from Taipei to US LA.

My BDB has been 4 months old and has made over 500 shots. I just dont believe its brilliant brewing quality, so even no local service here in Taiwan for my unit; I am still happy about my decision to buy it in US and get it back to Taiwan.

Now I a little bit worry about its lifetime and wish Breville can provide some spare parts for sales, such as brew head gasket, OPV, flow meter, and ULKA vibe pump (or their partial component renew kits).

Regards,

Nick OY

[Courierdog]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Nick:
I agree this is one area (Spare Parts) which I think could be better.
I would also like to obtain a service manual as I know who will end up doing the service (Me)
I also would suggest things like the OPV be made of stainless and be adjustable from the outside like the better Italian units.
I am almost at the point of buying a second BDB as a spare, LOL
I still insist it is by far a superior machine to most I have tried out.
I stayed with my Rancillio Silvia so long because it was so rock solid and with care produced a decent shot of espresso.
My only problem with the Silvia was the fact that both my wife and I prefer a milk based drink and thus the Silvia being a single boiler was a very slow and sequential device.
I shopped around and tried out most of the other machines locally and while they produced a good shot and did a good job producing the micro foam the cost in every case began at a nominal $3000 CDN and went straight to the moon as it approached the GS3.
I must confess that non of the more expensive italian machines make a better shot or make better micro foam IMHO
I am very impressed with the BDB and I hope and trust Breville only decides to take it up a notch in the next generation.
Breville has left a lot of room for improvement if they choose to compete directly against the better Italian machines.
Most of the room is mostly in the snob class, things like a rotary pump ETC the BDB could use a drip tray which could be put in the dishwasher.
It is all small stuff and so far Breville is competing very well in the market place.
I think Phil and crew should be very proud of why they have achieved.
Yes there is always room to improve and yes there are always some machines that escape the quality control cycle, but for the most part most of the problems expressed are the users getting used to how the BDB operates and making the most out of the design as presented.
I for one am pleased with the BDB.
All this said I have a whole list of things I would like to see BUT if I wanted most of these things I would have paid $2000 - $6000 more for the machine for the privilege of ownership. LOL

[nickoyang]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I have an 1139..... machine which is set at a nominal 12.5 bar using a blind basketI obtained the Smart Grinder 1124F series. It required the shim kit and the machine came with zero shims. I added the shims per the instructions and everything is now as described.

I would suggest you adjust the OPV to 9.5 ~ 10 bar with a blind filter and use more finer grinding grinder (stepless grinder is preferrable for espresso machines) because such combination will give you more consistent and amused flavor of the coffee extractions.  Definetely, the current extraction quality of your BDB can be further improved up to those USD2500 Italian machines such VBM or Duetto 2 dual boilers.

All this said I have a whole list of things I would like to see BUT if I wanted most of these things I would have paid $2000 - $6000 more for the machine for the privilege of ownership.

Izzo Alex Duetto 2 will be my next machine but all of its features are not superior to BDB. For example, Duetto 2 takes 20 mins to reach the regulated temp. before pulling a shot. It has no volume based shot controls. Its pre-infusion is purely manual type operation. It has no auto power-on clock and almost cannot heat up the dual boilers in the same time for 110V AC power. Its E-61 group head needs to cool flush before pulling a shot...

All these drawbacks are not for BDB. Honestly, if enhanced BES900 version will use higher quality piping and OPV / flow meters or even change to use rotary pump but keep the pricing under USD1500 or so, some Italian espresso machine manufacturers will be in danger to go down in their sales.

Thanks

Nick OY

[TC]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Definetely, the current extraction quality of your BDB can be further improved up to those USD2500 Italian machines such VBM or Duetto 2 dual boilers.

Hmm...I struggled to get similar body regardless of tweaks...It is a good machine for the price though.

Duetto 2 takes 20 mins to reach the regulated temp

:-? Debatable...Our Alex Duetto III are up and with a hot group more rapidly than that- 8 minutes. Nevertheless, its best (as with the Breville) to give it time for everything to warm. The results are in the cup.

t has no auto power-on clock and almost cannot heat up the dual boilers in the same time for 110V AC power.

1. Easily fixed with the purchase of a timer from your local hardware shop

2. Thats why US models can operate on 15A or 20A (not that I care because Im not in the US)

It has no volume based shot controls.

Bonus- one less expensive part to have to replace if it goes bang. Experienced baristi watch their shots, so dont need volumetrics.

Its pre-infusion is purely manual type operation.

Factually incorrect. Might I suggest you do some research on e-61 anatomy and operation.

Its E-61 group head needs to cool flush before pulling a shot...

Nope. Wrong again....:

It may be best if you stick to what you know Nick. Have you had any significant hands on experience with a Duetto :-?

Too much of this information is incorrect and may mislead potential buyers. Our current stock of 230V Australian product is configured to happily run on 10A circuits in dual boiler simultaneous mode.

[specialpants]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Hey Nick - Ive used both the Breville and the Duetto.
Chris has covered most of it, but the Duetto walks all over the BDB any day. You should have a play of one if you get the chance and feel/taste/see/hear the difference.

I tried the volumetric buttons on the BDB once and found it was way off. I couldnt be stuffed programming it because I find it easier to use the MANUAL button.

Boiler Elements - The reality is it makes no difference that both elements are not activated at the same time. The Duetto has unlimted steam and the brew temp is always spot on. If it wasn’t for the lights on the Duetto, I wouldn’t know any better about what is happening with the elements.

Just for your info, the number thats displayed on the BDB is just the brew boilers target temperature. You dont actually have visibility into the actual temp or whether an element is activated. Theres also no gauge for the steam boiler on the BDB, so you cant actually see the actual steam pressure. The great thing with the Duetto is that there is a light for the boiler + steam elements, and the display shows the actual temperature of both boilers.

Cooling Flush - Ive never had to do it. Its a dual boiler and not your typical single boiler heat exchange machine.

Preinfusion - Ive played around with the BDBs PI settings and can’t tell the difference in the cup.

I have an external timer on my Duetto which I prefer over the Brevilles one. It’s great that the BDB has this feature, but I prefer the control of the external unit. For example, I set the Duetto to turn on 6:30AM during weekdays, except for Tuesday where it turns on 30mins earlier. On weekends, it turns on at 8AM. The flexibility doesn’t stop there – you can have the machine turn on more than once per day if required. The bad thing with the Breville is that the clock setting is lost when the power is switched off - you end up having to set the actual time, and the ON time each time you unplug the machine.

Having said that, the BDB is a great machine. For me, its the machine I use when Im away from home. For the price, you cant really go wrong. It produces a decent coffee, its well designed and has lots of innovative features (even the water tank impresses me - it channels water into the drip tray in case you overfill it  ).

Results from the BDB are good, but not as good as the Duetto 

[nickoyang]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

Results from the BDB are good, but not as good as the Duetto   

Our Alex Duetto III are up and with a hot group more rapidly than that- 8 minutes. Nevertheless, its best (as with the Breville) to give it time for everything to warm. The results are in the cup.

Thank you for your corrections to my misleading statements regarding the Duetto 2. As you mentioned, Duett 2 performs better than BDB and that is the reason I would like to buy it.

I have a question for you about Duetto 3. What is the difference between it and Duetto 2?
Is Duetto 3 a customed made model for some dealers? or it is the Duetto 2 2012 upgrade version?
Any difference between 110V and 220V models?
For 110V 20A model, is it same as 15A model in addition to a special AC cord?

Any of you would sell 110V model to me?

Thanks

Nick OY

[TC]

Re: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

I have a question for you about Duetto 3. What is the difference between it and Duetto 2

Its actually the Alex Duetto II (Mark III). The names getting long now, so most refer to the the Duetto III. Tank beep, tank cover and a few other things were added.

Is Duetto 3 a customed made model for some dealers? or it is the Duetto 2 2012 upgrade version?

As per above.

Any difference between 110V and 220V models?

Yes- the relevant electrical componentry is rated at 110V  :-?

For 110V 20A model, is it same as 15A model in addition to a special AC cord?

Its exactly the same. You run dual boiler simultaneous, you need 20A.

Any of you would sell 110V model to me?

Nope- given AU market is circa 230V, there is not much demand for 110V versions.  :-?

Id suggest that any questions re the Duetto should be raised in this thread: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1260516382/all as were well off topic here. Perhaps a mod may want to move the last few posts.