Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

    Hi. First post, but Ive been lurking for a while. Im looking at taking the plunge into the world of home espresso and am weighing up my options.

    Im a pretty big coffee fan (the one or two cups a day I drink now are my favourite parts of the day) but Ive never owned a machine before. Ive debated what price point I want to start at. My budget is reasonably flexible; Im not willing to spend several thousand, but something in the realm of $1300-1400 isnt out of the question if I think its worth it.

    I debated starting with something simpler, like one of the Sunbeams (or possibly the Gaggia Glassic) and an entry level grinder, but everything I read indicates that:

    a) the difference in quality is quite noticeable.
    b) a lot of people who buy mid tier setups wind up upgrading quite soon after

    Im quite picky about my cafe bought coffee as it is, so Im not sure id be satisfied with starting simple. With that in mind I think ive settled on one of the two above machines. It may be a lot for a novice to take in, but Im willing to put the time into getting better at it.

    The Lelit retails for about $950 from Jetblack, the Breville slightly more, but I can argue it down a little at some non-sponsor or buy second hand if I have to. Im still trying to wrap my head around all the terminology, so its a little intimidating trying to differentiate between the two.

    Of the machines I was considering, Im pretty certain I understand that:

    Gaggia Classic < Rancillio Silvia < Lelit PL41TEMD (due to the built in PID)

    But I dont really know where the Breville fits in. Im assuming it might be above them all given its higher price point, but I dont really understand the advantages of a dual boiler. Assuming its better, is it noticeably better? This Lelit has the built in PID, which should up the quality level a reasonable amount, if my reading has been accurate. I know theres a sweet spot for price vs performance in here somewhere heh.

    Ill be making almost exclusively milk drinks, and wont need more than two cups at a time. Im likely to pair whatever I buy with either the BSG800 or the K3T. I realise theres a quality difference between the two, but theres also $300 between them. Im still deciding on that front in any case.

    If anyone has any compelling evidence one way or the other, or wants to convince me to go another route entirely, then fire away. And if this setup is really going to be to much for a novice to handle then Id like to know that too I guess.

    Thanks in advance. Sorry for the ramble.

  • #2
    Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

    Leaving the grinder question to you... once you start looking at the $1000+ espresso machines the choice becomes tricky !
      I Would agree with your "ranking" of your  machine shortlist , though possibly you might consider a Silvia with a PID installed as a better choice than the Lelit.
    However, even with a PID, those machines are still going to have significant temperature fluctuations simply because the both have single (small) boilers.
    All the PID really does is prevent over temperature and give a stable "idle" temperature. So PID is not the ultimate in temperature stability, for that you need a bigger boiler and a Heat exchanger system.
    ..And that is where the Breville DB steps into the game.
    Infact the Breville  has dual boilers, heat exchanger , and  PID control !.  so "theoretically" it is equipped to do a better job though lacking "commercial" grade group set etc.
    The "Dual Boiler" feature allows a machine to generate steam for milt at the same time as maintaining a different "brewing" temperature for shots, something a single boiler machine cannot do even with a PID.
    ( you will need to read all the feedback from owners to form an opinion as to weather it meets expectations .)
    As i said, in this price range choices are tricky, but based on technical features, quality, and reputation for producing good shots, you may want to take a look at the Nuova Simonelli "Oscar" , a true HX machine with a large boiler and commercial quality components, and priced <$1200.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

      Have you considered the Lelit PL60T dual boiler? It is a little more than the BDB. But in a recent side by side test, it ranked quite well next to the Duetto, a much more expensive machine. That being said, Im not a fan of the Lelit styling, so its not for me. But each to their own.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

        The thing is, I can keep letting my budget creep up forever. Theres always something better just a few hundred dollars more up the chain. I started firmly eyeing the $700 point with the Silvia and the Lelit without the PID, but then I noticed the PID model on Jetblack, and decided it might be worth it.

        Then I noticed I could get the Breville for about the same second hand, or slightly more new, and the budget crept up again. Ive gotta draw a line somewhere.

        Im going to go into unnamed non sponsor and see what they can do the Breville for new today I think. Im more concerned about the difference between it and the single boiler machines with PID control.

        Thanks for the replies thus far.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

          Originally posted by 5C737964767C641D0 link=1333027508/3#3 date=1333067886
          The thing is, I can keep letting my budget creep up forever. Theres always something better just a few hundred dollars more up the chain. I started firmly eyeing the $700 point with the Silvia and the Lelit without the PID, but then I noticed the PID model on Jetblack, and decided it might be worth it.

          Then I noticed I could get the Breville for about the same second hand, or slightly more new, and the budget crept up again. Ive gotta draw a line somewhere.

          Im going to go into unnamed non sponsor and see what they can do the Breville for new today I think. Im more concerned about the difference between it and the single boiler machines with PID control.

          Thanks for the replies thus far.

          Fair point. Alright, sticking to budget. You say youre going to be making exclusively milk based drinks? In this case, I would definitely suggest the Breville dual boiler if you can get it for the right price. I see you have found the one in the For Sales section. I suppose, one big difference is that the Breville is an "appliance", with more electrics, thus more things to go wrong. And appliances traditionally are not made to last. You will get a longer lifespan out of the Lelit, or Silvia. But I think you will prefer to have the second boiler. That way, you can steam your milk while extracting. Or at least, not have to wait between extracting and steaming.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

            A dual boiler or heat exchanger will make milk drinks quicker than a single boiler but it only makes a noticeable difference once you get onto the second jug or are wanting to do shots, milk, shots, milk. If youre just doing one jug (two drinks) at a time a single boiler wont be that much slower - you just have to wait a minute or so once youve pulled the shot for the boiler to get up to steam temperature, which is about how long it takes to knock out the puck, get the milk out of the fridge, pour the jug and milk back in fridge.

            Have a look at the graph on http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/kb/reviews/sunbeam-silvia/ in the section on steaming. As you can see from the solid blue and purple lines, a small single boilers performance isnt great once you get past the second jug due to the time taken in recharging the boiler between jugs (a dedicated dual boiler is likely to be a lot larger than 300ml on the Silvia / Lelit so wouldnt have the same problem).

            My point in saying all this is that a dual boiler is not necessary for your situation. It will certainly be a bit quicker than a single boiler, but if youre conscious of your budget then a Silvia or Lelit will work fine. I had the predecessor to the Lelit, followed by a Silvia, for several years and in all that time the only times they couldnt keep up was when I was trying to make more than 4 milk drinks (2 jugs worth) in one session. By all means spend the extra if you want to and youll get quicker results but for your nominated use I dont think you need to.

            Greg

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

              What about the actual quality of the coffee though? I can deal with an extra minute of work if it means a better end result.

              Thats an interesting point about the electronics etc. I hadnt considered that. Ill have to factor it in.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                If its almost exclusively milk drinks then I think any of them would do the job. The fine issues with temperature control / minor shot differences are mainly going to show up if youre drinking espresso (and as its not your main drink I suspect youre not picky enough about it for that to make much difference). I was able to get perfectly acceptable espressos with my two but have never been a bit espresso fan. Of the two the Silvia was a more robust machine than the Lelit and has a 58mm portafilter (vs 57mm on the Lelit) which makes shopping for better tampers and baskets a lot easier, but had a PID for about half its life which would have helped with espresso results.

                Others who have more recent experience with these should really comment on how the current Lelit and Silvias stack up against the Breville as my experience is based on 2003-2008 data.

                Greg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                  Originally posted by 456A607D6F657D040 link=1333027508/6#6 date=1333070019
                  Thats an interesting point about the electronics etc. I hadnt considered that. Ill have to factor it in.
                  Just purchase the Breville DBD and extend the warranty out to 5 years.

                  $1200 for 5 years of use is not that bad and in 5 years time the killer Breville BES95000+ model will be out anyway and youll be ready to upgrade ;-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                    Originally posted by 252F322F3C232819352B2F322E460 link=1333027508/8#8 date=1333071139
                    Originally posted by 456A607D6F657D040 link=1333027508/6#6 date=1333070019
                    Thats an interesting point about the electronics etc. I hadnt considered that. Ill have to factor it in.
                    Just purchase the Breville DBD and extend the warranty out to 5 years.

                    $1200 for 5 years of use is not that bad and in 5 years time the killer Breville BES95000+ model will be out anyway and youll be ready to upgrade ;-)

                    But in 5 years your breville will be worth nothing, effectively costing you $250 /yr ..whilst the Silvia will still have a resale value effective cost $100 /yr . !
                    I am a PIDd Silvia user, and making a lot of milk drinks  requires a huge amount of mental coordination.
                    A friends "Oscar" is a dream in comparison..
                    A better machine, better quality, and cheaper than the Breville ... IMHO
                    ( An "as new" 2 yr old Oscar just sold on ebay for $700 !)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                      The Lelit PL41TEMD certainly has a great feature set, though there seems to be quite a discrepancy in the price difference between AUS and eupore/america. Most AUS retailers have this one for around the $1000 mark while Ive seen it advertised for almost HALF this price from overseas retailers. Hopefully ive just missed something? Anyone have any insight here?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                        Originally posted by 303E373C366760520 link=1333027508/9#9 date=1333076630
                        But in 5 years your breville will be worth nothing, effectively costing you $250 /yr ..whilst the Silvia will still have a resale value effective cost $100 /yr . !
                        Very true, and this could be a big deciding factor for the OP in what machine he/she finally decides upon.

                        Personally, my family and friends nearly always end up the recipients of the toys Ive finished playing with so resale isnt a big consideration for me only the value I get from using it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                          Originally posted by 46564B41320 link=1333027508/10#10 date=1333077755
                          Most AUS retailers have this one for around the $1000 mark while Ive seen it advertised for almost HALF this price from overseas retailers. Hopefully ive just missed something? Anyone have any insight here?

                          Just so you know, you have stumbled over a pretty heated topic on the forum.

                          I think the general idea on cheap imports is: if you can pay to land a machine, do any necessary conversions, and are happy to run without any support or warranty (and possibly introduce an insurance risk) - then go for it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                            @blend52 - excellent point

                            @tdys - no personal experience but we import Hottop coffee roasters and its the same with them. The 240v market is smaller so cost from the factory is higher, also bear in mind all our prices include GST which adds 10% to any price you might otherwise have gotten.

                            Overseas retailers dont have to charge GST, sell product that often wont work in Australia without expensive (and often illegal) modifications, they dont pay the costs of doing business in Australia, they dont need to provide much of a warranty because the cost of return shipping is normally so high, and lucky last you might or might not get someone to spend sufficient time with you so you can be sure youre making the right choice and then understand how to use it. Oh, and they dont contribute to the costs of running the very forum youre getting your answers from either, without which there would be no forum

                            Greg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                              Oh well, thanks for the input guys. I wound up getting the Breville today, with the BSG800. Got a fairly good deal on the package and am pretty excited.

                              I went with it mainly because of the ease of use. I essentially spent more money over the Lelit for coffee that is roughly as good and a user experience that is friendlier and more forgiving. Or at least thats my understanding.

                              I hadnt considered the point of resale value either, but Im okay with that I think. I spend so much buying coffee from cafes anyway that I essentially write off $1500 a year on that alone.

                              Im always a bit hesitant to buy second hand with expensive items and this way Ive got the full warranty to fall back on.

                              Thanks for the advice all.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X