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Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

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  • #16
    Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

    Enjoy your nectar!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

      Originally posted by 5B4C54563F0 link=1333027508/12#12 date=1333078285
      I think the general idea on cheap imports is: if you can pay to land a machine, do any necessary conversions, and are happy to run without any support or warranty (and possibly introduce an insurance risk) - then go for it.
      Originally posted by 4F4A5353525E513F0 link=1333027508/13#13 date=1333078592
      @tdys - no personal experience but we import Hottop coffee roasters and its the same with them. The 240v market is smaller so cost from the factory is higher, also bear in mind all our prices include GST which adds 10% to any price you might otherwise have gotten.

      Overseas retailers dont have to charge GST, sell product that often wont work in Australia without expensive (and often illegal) modifications, they dont pay the costs of doing business in Australia, they dont need to provide much of a warranty because the cost of return shipping is normally so high, and lucky last you might or might not get someone to spend sufficient time with you so you can be sure youre making the right choice and then understand how to use it. Oh, and they dont contribute to the costs of running the very forum youre getting your answers from either, without which there would be no forum Wink

      Greg

      OK thanks, my reasoning behind the question (and perhaps I could have been a little clearer) was more the level of discrepancy in the price. Im all over reasons why there can sometimes be a SLIGHT difference between aussie and overseas retailers ( 10% - 25% ) in any market, but on this particular Lelit it is more in the ballpark of 50%.. was hoping there would be a solid reasoning behind this   ie: physical differences between AUS and EURO/USA Lelit models. rather than usual no GST, crap warranty etc..

      FYI the rancilio silvia on the same site was selling for the exact same price as the site sponsers which fueled my curiousity even further..

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

        Originally posted by 5D727865777D651C0 link=1333027508/14#14 date=1333078997
        Oh well, thanks for the input guys. I wound up getting the Breville today, with the BSG800. Got a fairly good deal on the package and am pretty excited.

        I went with it mainly because of the ease of use. I essentially spent more money over the Lelit for coffee that is roughly as good and a user experience that is friendlier and more forgiving. Or at least thats my understanding.

        I hadnt considered the point of resale value either, but Im okay with that I think. I spend so much buying coffee from cafes anyway that I essentially write off $1500 a year on that alone.

        Im always a bit hesitant to buy second hand with expensive items and this way Ive got the full warranty to fall back on.

        Thanks for the advice all.
        Congratulations, I went through much the same thought process too and am loving it. If resale is an issue, I dont agree that it will have NO value. Just dont wait five years before you move up to the shiny double boiler Italian model costing three times as much...  ;D

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        • #19
          Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

          Originally posted by 032C263B29233B420 link=1333027508/14#14 date=1333078997
          I hadnt considered the point of resale value either, but Im okay with that I think. I spend so much buying coffee from cafes anyway that I essentially write off $1500 a year on that alone.
          Good choice - I think youll be very happy. I believe Breville have designed this machine for a 10+ years life span too. Good luck. See you in the Breville thread!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

            Originally posted by 4B5B464C3F0 link=1333027508/16#16 date=1333080663
            OK thanks, my reasoning behind the question (and perhaps I could have been a little clearer) was more the level of discrepancy in the price. Im all over reasons why there can sometimes be a SLIGHT difference between aussie and overseas retailers ( 10% - 25% ) in any market, but on this particular Lelit it is more in the ballpark of 50%.. was hoping there would be a solid reasoning behind this   ie: physical differences between AUS and EURO/USA Lelit models. rather than usual no GST, crap warranty etc..
            You may be seeing the PL41TEM rather than the better specced PL41TEMD?

            charlie

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

              Thanks Charlie I think youre right, what would be the main differences between the PL41TEM and PL41TEMD? THe lelit.com site doesnt mention the latter..

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                The PL41TEMD has a dual channel PID controller rather than the single channel controller in the PL41TEM (so steam is also controlled by the PID leading to stronger, more steady steam). This makes it easier to get great microfoam and speeds up the milk heating phase.

                Also, there are a number of enhancements we specify on all of the Lelits we import. Technically, what you are buying here is the PL41TEMDAUS which is a model only sold in Australia. We started with the PL41TEM and went to Lelit with a wish list of enhancements including PIDd steam control, 9BAR OPV (rather than 10.5), blind filter in the box, extra instructions, some non-functional quality control stuff, ... It costs us more, but we think its worth it

                charlie



                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                  Hmm,
                  nice try charlie, but unless there is something else nice in the box, a second channel on the PID, adjusted OPV, , blind filter, and better manual....doesnt really explain the AU$ 400+ price differential !
                  ( you forgot to mention the voltage change )
                  Dont take offense, i am sure you are not living the high life off these machines, also i am not surprised at the difference,..you get used to it living here, there are many more blatant examples in other products.
                  In fact i am more surprised that there are not more examples if this "Aussie premium" showing on some of the other brands of Espresso machines.
                  So it would appear its actually you who is being shafted by Lelit compared to the deals they give others ?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                    Originally posted by 6769606B613037050 link=1333027508/22#22 date=1333428253
                    Hmm,
                      nice try charlie, but unless there is something else nice in the box, a second channel on the PID, adjusted OPV, , blind filter, and better manual....doesnt really explain the AU$ 400+ price differential ! 
                    ( you forgot to mention the voltage change )
                      Dont take offense, i am sure you are not living the high life off these machines, also i am not surprised at the difference,..you get used to it living here, there are many more blatant examples in other products.
                    In fact i am more surprised that there are not more examples if this "Aussie premium"  showing on some of the other brands of Espresso machines.
                       So  it would appear its actually you who is being shafted by Lelit compared to the deals they give others ?
                    Hello 52,

                    The Gicar PID is actually 3 channel...

                    As for the other points, they have been discussed at length before. Suffice to say that Charlie has to deal with long distance freight- international and local, import duties, GST, a dealer network to distribute his goods around the country and provide service to buyers as well as Australian warranty laws which require more of the importer than any other country I am aware of. This all comes at a cost.

                    Same same as elsewhere, but not really- once you read up that is...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                      Originally posted by 12272A2D19052920202323460 link=1333027508/23#23 date=1333431675
                      The Gicar PID is actually 3 channel...
                      what is the third channel controlling ?
                      ..and is worth ?? over a single channel ?

                      Originally posted by 12272A2D19052920202323460 link=1333027508/23#23 date=1333431675
                      As for the other points, they have been discussed at length before. Suffice to say that Charlie has to deal with long distance freight- international and local, import duties, GST, a dealer network to distribute his goods around the country and provide service to buyers as well as Australian warranty laws which require more of the importer than any other country I am aware of. This all comes at a cost.

                      Same same as elsewhere, but not really- once you read up that is...
                      Yes, this is the same story all the retailers ( Gerry Harvey, D Jones etc) throw up when joe public points out price differentials compared to "on line" prices.. :.........and it doesnt wash any more im afraid .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                        Originally posted by 4749404B411017250 link=1333027508/24#24 date=1333439542
                        .....and it doesnt wash any more im afraid
                        Whats your point? Either buy direct online or overseas, or buy local, but dont ask a retailer to justify their prices. Its none of your business.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                          Originally posted by 505E575C560700320 link=1333027508/24#24 date=1333439542
                          what is the third channel controlling ?
                          Nothing- unless one of the other channels dies.

                          Originally posted by 505E575C560700320 link=1333027508/24#24 date=1333439542
                          joe public points out price differentials compared to "on line" prices.. .........and it doesnt wash any more im afraid
                          Yes- Joe Pub doesnt consider the cost of maintaining parts inventory from which he will expect support. Joe Pub often has not imported goods on a commercial scale either so is generally inexperienced in the realities of retail and imports...but worry not Joe as I have a solution for you: Keep an eye out for www.siparlecaffe.it

                          This site will be dedicated to all Joes. It will operate out of a logistics company in Italy. Well sell in $US and ship boxes neither tested nor calibrated using Italian insurance to anyone who wants one. Of course your insurance, warranty, parts and support will all be Italy as well- aptly managed by Claudio- in Italian: "No problemo Guiseppe, you justa senda you machina back to me I fix it for you"....

                          We will be wrapped as we wont have to worry about duty, GST or service as it will be your baby. Neither will we contribute to your nonnas pension or anything else in Australia. Meanwhile, well be on holiday in Sardinia with your $US.

                          Best bet is to buy goods, parts and support from your chosen retailer Joe, as you have the right to choose. Dont forget to put money aside for any of your family who work in retail or finance, for your nonna and for any other support you may need as you age or have a family. You chose the world you wanted to live in.

                          Meanwhile, I give Charlie a pat on the back for tireless work in getting the brand really established, marketing it and expanding the range as well as having the ticker to put many thousands on the line- in the hope theyd sell. Sadly, most Joes just dont get it. :

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                            Originally posted by 59575E555F0E093B0 link=1333027508/24#24 date=1333439542
                            Originally posted by 12272A2D19052920202323460 link=1333027508/23#23 date=1333431675
                            The Gicar PID is actually 3 channel...
                            what is the third channel controlling ?
                            ..and is worth ?? over a single channel ?


                            Originally posted by 12272A2D19052920202323460 link=1333027508/23#23 date=1333431675
                            As for the other points, they have been discussed at length before. Suffice to say that Charlie has to deal with long distance freight- international and local, import duties, GST, a dealer network to distribute his goods around the country and provide service to buyers as well as Australian warranty laws which require more of the importer than any other country I am aware of. This all comes at a cost.

                            Same same as elsewhere, but not really- once you read up that is...
                            Yes,  this is the same story all the retailers  ( Gerry Harvey, D Jones etc)   throw up when joe public points out price differentials compared to "on line" prices.. :.........and it doesnt wash any more im afraid .
                             
                            This may be true for mass market products but the last time I checked my local harveys didnt sell a mazzer grinder a gs3 machine or even a lelit branded product. If I never want the chance to see, touch or trial a product again, Ill think like you and go online and buy my next coffee machine direct from a seller who Ive never seen and doesnt ever want to hear from me again.

                            Its an attitude like that thats caused a fall in quality of products world wide just so we can save a few dollars.

                            Take the audio video industry for example I can buy a low end Sony, Yamaha or Denon amp from HN or the like or online no worries but when I want something special who do I go to how can I tell if the new amp I want goes well with my $10,000+ speakers do I rely on some online sellers opinion? NO I go and spend half a day or 2 in a quality shop who stocks my speakers and I trial every amp I can and if Ive got a good relationship with that shop they may even let me take home and try their equipment.

                            Sadly this is becoming harder and harder as we push out the guys doing good in retail and shop at the some non-sponsor as we all search to buy sub-standard crap from people who wouldnt even know what a naked group handle for an E61 group head was.

                            Dont let our short term saving become a long term loss.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                              Originally posted by 49474E454F1E192B0 link=1333027508/24#24 date=1333439542
                              Yes, this is the same story all the retailers ( Gerry Harvey, D Jones etc) throw up when joe public points out price differentials compared to "on line" prices.. Roll Eyes.........and it doesnt wash any more im afraid .

                              The retailers on this site are specialists, with specialist knowledge. They dont have anywhere near the volume of sales the big vendors you mention do.

                              If you have ever had a machine go wrong, and had to have it repaired, you will understand the value of a store that knows its products intimately.

                              You are more than entitled to vote with your wallet, in any way you see fit - in fact its important that you do!

                              Personally I am more worried about the revolting monopoly of Coles and Woolworths and their parent companies, than small coffee machine retailers trying to make a buck.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Lelit PL41TEMD vs Breville BES900 or perhaps something else

                                I seem to have hit a sensitive spot here.. so just to clarify a few points ...
                                .. Either buy direct online or overseas, or buy local, but dont ask a retailer to justify their prices. Its none of your business.
                                I didnt ask.. i was replying to charlies explanation of the price differential to another poster .
                                But, when spending my money, a retailer better be prepared to justify why i should pay a 50% premium over another retailer. IF i feel its justified , i will pay it.
                                I need to understand why i am paying the premium. ...but apparently you dont ?

                                Joe Pub doesnt consider the cost of maintaining parts inventory from which he will expect support. Joe Pub often has not imported goods on a commercial scale either so is generally inexperienced in the realities or retail and imports..
                                Very true , however, i suspect most vendors of these products would have similat stock, distribution, service , costs to cover
                                Also, I have managed international shipping on a commercial scale, from/to various international destinations, so lets just say i am aware of the various costs and differences !

                                ..Best bet is to buy goods, parts and support from your chosen retailer 52.
                                agreed,.... but i expect most would not buy a high dollar product without researching competitive pricing and service. ( note ..many products now come with International warranties )

                                last time I checked my local harveys didnt sell a mazzer grinder a gs3 machine or even a lelit branded product. If I never want the chance to see, touch or trial a product again, Ill think like you and go online and buy my next coffee machine direct from a seller who Ive never seen and doesnt ever want to hear from me again.
                                Hmm, you should read the thread again.
                                I never said HN or DJ had anything to do with coffee gear ( you should try Domain if you want that) , i merely used them as examples of dated trading models who are losing trade to other forms of retail and using similar arguments as posted for the Lelit ( shipping, GST, warranty costs, distribution costs , etc).. The fact is .. that is not the full picture !

                                finally, just to be clear, i do support local specialist shops, and have had dealings with some of the sponsors as well as other small local specialists.
                                I also go out of my way to NOT shop in the Woolworth /Coles monopolies ! ..no matter what offers they may have !

                                Comment

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