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Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

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  • Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

    Howdie All

    One of those noob advice posts, but WAIT! Ive done my homework  . Like a coiled spring, Im poised to buy my first real coffee machine, and thought Id give the experts a final chance to stick their oars in and confuse me  .

    (Youll have missed me lurking in the corner all these weeks - Im an expert at it, and if it wasnt a tendency to drool and the occasional passage of wind, I could stay hidden practically indefinitely)...

    So. I like good coffee. However, My palate isnt refined enough that if I failed to notice a passing squall while brewing a cup, the altered taste would result in me strangling my wife and dismembering the cat.

    I am the lone proper coffee-lover in the house. I hope to re-educate the other savages that blunder around the place, and occasionally Guests occur. So I wanted something that could step up to producing 5 or 6 cups occasionally, while squirting out a cup or two on a daily basis.

    Very importantly, as I am still a Philistine when it comes to producing a decent cup, I wanted a machine that was a consistent as possible, with as little need to tinker with the base settings as possible - ie, as far as possible, I want my incompetence to be the only variable (Have I said as far as possible again? It may be time for my pills).

    Ive been through the usual start with a budget of $500 and multiply by three by the time Im settled. And $1500 is the absolute limit.

    I started off looking at the old favourite - the Rancilio Silvia. (My little brother has one of these and recommended it. However, I discovered that he puts sugar in his coffee, so have been forced to reclassify him as Letting The Side Down). I think it has too many variables - seem to need quite a bit of tweaking, temp surfing etc, and getting more than a couple of cups out of it seems to be an issue.

    Similar story with the various low end lelits.

    The nuova simonelli oscar looked tempting, but it doesnt seem popular (important for me as Im likely to need advice & help frequently, so a big user base is a must), and suggestions are its a bit overpriced.

    So Ive eventually settled on the Bre ville BES900 (sorry about breaking up bre ville, but if I dont the site automatically turns it into an url, and then tells me Im not allowed to post links on account of being a noob!), which I can pick up locally with a Smartgrider for $1398. I dont like the store that is selling them, but Im sure I can get another of the locals to match the offer.

    The big issue I have with the BES900 is the way that Bre ville has treated the little guys - site sponsors here who were early adopters who appear to have been royally shafted (see the thread in this section - Where to buy BES900 + BCG800 bundle?). Im a bit of a closet anarchist, and it ps me off when big companies do this sort of thing. Bre ville have remained silent on the issue, so I assume they are guilty as charged.

    My placard waving stops when my wallet becomes heavily involved though  :-[ - value for money is important for me as I work hard for those dollars, and the bloody government keeps stealing them! I cant really find a comparable bundle in terms of price/performance. Id be slightly swayed if there was a sponsor local to me (Newcastle, NSW) with something close price/performance wise, but I think the nearest would be Sydney.

    Im not remotely brand conscious - Im inherently awesome and dont need something with a shiny label to establish my worth. Id by a Nissan GTR before I bought a Porsche because it does twice as much for half the price. So Im not really interested in buying something simply because its shiny and genuine italian craftsmanship. If the Italian craftsman genuinely produces something better than someone else, then fair enough, but Im not paying for a bit of text.

    So, does anyone have any other suggestions? Please note, that the $1500 limit is absolute. I could keep going just another $100 forever. Im already $1000 over the original budget.

    Anything else I should have a look at before taking the plunge?

    And then I need to find a good local course, a good local bean supplier, a friend... :!!

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

    Check the for sale section, lots of good machines there.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1338937971

    As Breville is sold by many retailers, you are in luck. Mid year sales are approaching, and you should be able to buy it for at least 20% of RRP, maybe even cheaper.
    Your best value for money would be a slightly used machine, they come up for sale now and again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

      If you settle on the BDB, check that you have read all the info on pricing.
      They seem to be not to hard to find new for <1k $ and the smart grinders likewise for <$200.
      But as BB mentioned, your budget would get you some fine pre-loved equipment .

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

        Get the BDB and be rewarded with the "real" coffee you are longing for. Oh, and dont be put off by the "appliance" label being thrown around - by definition an appliance is: A device or instrument designed to perform a specific function, especially an electrical device, such as a toaster, for household use.

        You will be hard pressed to find a new combo machine and grinder with the same host of features for the same spend, even 2nd hand.

        Sounds like you are already leaning towards the BDB, so push the button already!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

          Originally posted by 645C5A4A454C5A290 link=1338948402/3#3 date=1338951440
          Oh, and dont be put off by the "appliance" label being thrown around
          +1 - its just snobbery and a bit sad. The Breville is a great machine and youll be very happy with it. I think you should be able to pick one up for around $1200. You want it to make coffee right and are not looking for a 100% return in 5 years time?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

            Originally posted by 7752455A5764020A0503330 link=1338948402/4#4 date=1338954533
            Originally posted by 645C5A4A454C5A290 link=1338948402/3#3 date=1338951440
            Oh, and dont be put off by the "appliance" label being thrown around
            Totally agree, I was an early adopter had a few small problems with the grinder shims & the POV setting but other than that i am a happy BDB owner.

            Hard to beat at that price!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

              Im a couple of months more advanced than you and as you can see to the left I have a Lelit and a Rocky. I settled on these after extensive reading then I called five of the site sponsors thinking theyd all want to sell me the Silvia+Rocky on my budget. I wont say who I finally purchased from but their initials rhyme with "Jetblack" - it was close between them all.

              From these conversations with experts who were undoubtably trying to sell product to maximise margins and to suit MY needs I settled on what I have now. At two of the places I even snuck past the sales teams and got to the poor techos working out the back for further info on possible flaws in my short list of products (I live a LONG way from the nearest service point). They were all very patient with me while I kicked their tyres.

              I now make very good coffee and Im getting better. The machinery works as it should. So I suggest you call some of the sponsors because if you get them at a quiet time they can be extremely helpful!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

                Thanks for the replies.

                I do keep an eye on the for sale section. My concern with pre-loved is, just how pre-loved is it? Ive no idea how to tell a gem from a turkey - I just dont know enough at the moment.

                Ill see if I can find a sponsor thats not too far away, but Im not seeing much to dissuade me from the BES900...!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

                  Why not just buy a new one, get the warranty, know it has a clean history and learn from the word go..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Out of the darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...

                    Originally posted by 102C2D363021212A7577440 link=1338948402/8#8 date=1338984658
                    Why not just buy a new one, get the warranty, know it has a clean history and learn from the word go..
                    My thoughts exactly. At around $12-1300 for the set new if I time it right, theres no point in getting them 2nd hand unless were talking sub 900 - and I havent seen anything advertised for that sort of price.

                    I think Ill take he plunge his weekend unless something spectacular appears in the sale section before then...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

                      Originally posted by 727D736165797C7C757E100 link=1338948402/5#5 date=1338955370
                      Originally posted by 7752455A5764020A0503330 link=1338948402/4#4 date=1338954533
                      Originally posted by 645C5A4A454C5A290 link=1338948402/3#3 date=1338951440
                      Oh, and dont be put off by the "appliance" label being thrown around
                      Totally agree, I was an early adopter had a few small problems with the grinder shims & the POV setting but other than that i am a happy BDB owner.

                      Hard to beat at that price!
                      Just to echo this comment.
                      I have Alex Duetto 2 and BES900XL.
                      What I can tell you is that I spent more time on using BES900XL. Why? just because BES900 makes equivalent good coffee in the cup as Alex Duetto 2. Also, the use of tech savvy BES900XL enjoys more.

                      Cheers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

                        I dont think anyone has ever disputed that the 900 is good value. In fact, I/we promoted it and still do when it suits someones budget. When I extolled its virtues before release, I seem to recall a great deal of ridicule, suspicion, and accusation of hype.

                        Twelve months on and I think its more than a bit funny to read these comments defending it. It is what it is and if you like it, thats great. But if you think its on par with a Duetto, youre having yourself on. For example, the OPV in the 900 is flimsier than the spring in a Bic pen.

                        A new 900 has been sitting in a box, waiting to be sold for the asking price of $995.00 since the end of April. Thats a far cry from the $1499.00 rrp. So who knows what theyre really worth? If they continue to fall in price at this rate then they really will be just like most appliances ie. when it breaks throw it away as its cheaper to buy a new one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

                          No one is going over the top defending it. If you are referring to my "appliance" comment, well, it was about time sone cleared up the fact that each of us who have an espresso machine by definition have an appliance.

                          I said about the BDB when I bought mine that at $1500 it was a good price, but better prices would be had and in fact, what was it 2 weeks after their release that I got mine for $1150. If they came with 15kg of stainless they would certainly be dearer but thats irrelevant anyway as the OP has stated:

                          My placard waving stops when my wallet becomes heavily involved though  - value for money is important for me as I work hard for those dollars, and the bloody government keeps stealing them! I cant really find a comparable bundle in terms of price/performance. Id be slightly swayed if there was a sponsor local to me (Newcastle, NSW) with something close price/performance wise, but I think the nearest would be Sydney.

                          Im not remotely brand conscious - Im inherently awesome and dont need something with a shiny label to establish my worth. Id by a Nissan GTR before I bought a Porsche because it does twice as much for half the price. So Im not really interested in buying something simply because its shiny and genuine italian craftsmanship. If the Italian craftsman genuinely produces something better than someone else, then fair enough, but Im not paying for a bit of text.
                          Hence all of the BDB reccomendations.

                          So, before the OP goes out and buys one new or second hand can anyone recommend an appliance (wether it be Made in China or Made in Italy and comprising of Chinese components) with a better set of features and still within budget taking into account that he needs a grinder too?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

                            Calm down Muscles! Did you miss the first line of my post?

                            Originally posted by 27060D0D0A10630 link=1338948402/11#11 date=1339041841
                            I dont think anyone has ever disputed that the 900 is good value.  In fact, I/we promoted it and still do when it suits someones budget. 

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Out of darkness & about to buy my 1st machine...BES900?

                              No I didnt, I know you have and still do recommend but you are not the only person reading this thread. We wouldnt want any new members getting the wrong idea now....

                              Comment

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