EM6910 - impossible to pull a single or double with the same extraction time.

[Skip]

[THREAD BUMP]

Could it be that the reason the single basket is only slightly smaller than the double, is because the EM6910 does not have an OPV? I.e, the pressure in the filter basket is defined by the flow rate - the slower the flow, the higher the pressure. To produce a 30mL shot with the right flow rate, the pressure would conceivably need to be higher than optimum, because if it were not, the flow rate would then be too high. So, I'm suggesting that just perhaps, the "single" basket is not really designed for a true single pour, and is instead designed for a pour that is somewhere between 30mL and 60mL. Maybe Sunbeam didn't want to try to explain all this in the manual, for fear of confusing their customers. I'm assuming the machine has been optimised for a double basket, such that when the double is used, the flow rate AND pressure will be correct, to produce 60mL in ~25-30 seconds.

And yes, I'm aware that some folks mod the EM6910, to fit an OPV.

Does any of this sound plausible? (I'm an espresso newbie btw)

Regards,
Greg.
p.s I have just purchased a used EM6910 and it is working fine.

[cherni78]

Ok guys,

New baskets... I bought these from coffeeparts. The ones at the top are the original SB ones (double and single). As you can note, more holes and smaller.

[cherni78]

roger-that...
my wife and I usually drink a single cortado, my glasses are only around 75ml.


^^ that was the procedure i worked out for using the singles in my 6910,
but now i just drink the extra shot while i'm making others...

Yeah "cortado simple" its in 60/70ml glass. 1 shot, 20-30 ml of milk

[cherni78]

If you want to pull singles the only basket you should be spending on is the la marzocco single, it has a center section with straight walls so its like a 41mm basket inside a standard 58mm, which equates to half the area of a double. I put 8 grams in it and get good shots all day long.




You can bend the spring to make it less grabby on the baskets, bend the straight sections that grab the ridge so they dont protrude as far away from edge of the portafilter

Interesting! Well, with the single I bought, still need at least 12g... if I use 10g, the puck ends up stuck into the shower screen. its 2g less than the standard included with SB.

[Jimmytheboot]

If you want to pull singles the only basket you should be spending on is the la marzocco single, it has a center section with straight walls so its like a 41mm basket inside a standard 58mm, which equates to half the area of a double. I put 8 grams in it and get good shots all day long.

Ahh, one caveat, the Astoria baskets require a thinner spring in the porta filter... quite difficult to remove if not!

You can bend the spring to make it less grabby on the baskets, bend the straight sections that grab the ridge so they dont protrude as far away from edge of the portafilter

[cherni78]

Well,

I bought some new baskets from coffeeparts! The guys there directed me to the ASTORIA ones (compatible with EM6910)

Coffee Parts | Astoria Spare Parts - 1a/2a Series Group Head and Portafilters

My first impression was: Wow, these ones have a lot of holes in it! That meant that I had to move a couple of notch finer on my grinder

I bought the triple one: Holds 24g of coffee easily, but for my taste it was too strong. Also, 24g is not the right dosage for the EM6910 (wet puck)... I guess 26g might be... still, too much.... need less!

I haven't tested the single one, which should hold around 10-12 grams of coffee (instead of the 14g on the original one of SB). Will do some brewing today and let you know.

Ahh, one caveat, the Astoria baskets require a thinner spring in the porta filter... quite difficult to remove if not!

[Yash]

But if you use both baskets then it's the dose that changes to use the single, not the grind.

All I remember with the 6910 was:
If you maintain the same dose level (with respect to shower screen) for both single and double baskets, then you'd need a significantly different grind to get the same extraction times. Of course adjusting the dose level will compensate for this but my experience with the 6910 says that its wasn't very effective. This is probably because the difference in dose level required is so much that you have to go too far away from the 'optimal' dose level of the machine, which wasn't worth it.

[Robbks]

Well, I do use doubles... I like a "double cortado"... double shot in a 90 ml glass and top up with hot milk (not very foamy).

roger-that...
my wife and I usually drink a single cortado, my glasses are only around 75ml.

The single and double baskets do work well as a pair - remember that the single isn't half the double! If you're using the single all the time then by all means adjust dose and grind for the single. But you couldn't then use the double basket with the same grind. But if you use both baskets then it's the dose that changes to use the single, not the grind. The initial dose stage should be the same as the double if you dose by eye (overfill, tap to settle, level & tamp), here's a good starting point:

• Overfill the single basket
• Tap twice to settle
• Level the grounds using the doser lid (or a saucer) - this results in a pronounced concave bed in the single basket
• Tamp lightly - just rest the tamper on the grounds and press with fingertips.
• Lock & load, pull the shot - you'll find the flow rate is pretty well right, just stop the shot based on colour but it'll be somewhere ~25ml. But if it were too fast, use a larger saucer to level or vice versa...

This isn't unique to the EM6910 btw, it's valid for most single / double basket pairs (though if you're into super dooper special after market jobs, all bets are off!).

^^ that was the procedure i worked out for using the singles in my 6910,
but now i just drink the extra shot while i'm making others...

[WiredArabica]

The single and double baskets do work well as a pair - remember that the single isn't half the double! If you're using the single all the time then by all means adjust dose and grind for the single. But you couldn't then use the double basket with the same grind. But if you use both baskets then it's the dose that changes to use the single, not the grind. The initial dose stage should be the same as the double if you dose by eye (overfill, tap to settle, level & tamp), here's a good starting point:

• Overfill the single basket
• Tap twice to settle
• Level the grounds using the doser lid (or a saucer) - this results in a pronounced concave bed in the single basket
• Tamp lightly - just rest the tamper on the grounds and press with fingertips.
• Lock & load, pull the shot - you'll find the flow rate is pretty well right, just stop the shot based on colour but it'll be somewhere ~25ml. But if it were too fast, use a larger saucer to level or vice versa...

This isn't unique to the EM6910 btw, it's valid for most single / double basket pairs (though if you're into super dooper special after market jobs, all bets are off!).

[Yash]

Hi Cherni78,

You definitely have the makings of a coffeesnob
From my experience the 6910 single and double baskets are not designed well as a pair. This is because you need to change your grind setting to swap between the two.
I was still able to get great shots from the single, but the practicality of changing grind settings all the time resulted in me rarely using the single. A shame.
On my current machine (Musica) the stock single and double baskets are matched well so I don't need to adjust the grind. And I swap between the two all the time, I'm not a fan of wasting 1/2 a double shot.

Some more advice on the 6910, find the right dose level and stick to it. Measuring the grams will definitely give you more consistency, but I guarantee you will grow out of it

Enjoy

[cherni78]

Do you not have the other shot at the same time?
or if i'm making an odd amount i just stick my nice espresso cup underneath and pour the odd (double) shot first and drink the shortie while i'm making the rest.

I only use 180-200ml cups (or even 90mm for some occasions) that don't require a double in each.

Well, I do use doubles... I like a "double cortado"... double shot in a 90 ml glass and top up with hot milk (not very foamy).

[Robbks]

Hi Guys,
my issue comes with my wife, she doesn't like strong coffee, so for her is a single shot.

Well, I will waste one spout (although it hurts)...

Do you not have the other shot at the same time?
or if i'm making an odd amount i just stick my nice espresso cup underneath and pour the odd (double) shot first and drink the shortie while i'm making the rest.

I only use 180-200ml cups (or even 90mm for some occasions) that don't require a double in each.

[cherni78]

Very weak

Seriously.. I reckon I'd have to cut the pour at about 10-15ml and end up with a sloppy puck as well!!

jajaja, well, I just bought a couple of new baskets from one of the sponsors of this forum

Lets see how it goes!

[shawty]

Hi Guys,
One question though... we are all updosing and we love it... I wonder what the "real" espresso tastes like if you stick to the 7/14g rules. Just wondering!
Cheers!

Very weak

Seriously.. I reckon I'd have to cut the pour at about 10-15ml and end up with a sloppy puck as well!!

[Bosco_Lever]

Hi Guys,

Well, I will waste one spout (although it hurts)...

Why waste it?
Put it in the fridge and use it to make an iced coffee or a frappe.