Originally posted by mentasm
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Advice needed for purchasing sub-$1000 machine
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Yes, I agree. I dont see myself ever brewing and steaming at the same time.Originally posted by artemidorus View PostI'd respectfully submit that separate brewing and steaming systems may be over-rated. As soon as I stop the pour on my Silvia, I flick the boiler to steam, retrieve the milk jug from the freezer, get the milk out, load the jug, and return the milk to the fridge. As long as I spend about 30 seconds doing that, I now have a good head of steam and may start stretching the milk immediately.
If another pour is required soon after steaming, then I put a cup under the group head and flick the brew button until the thermostat comes on in ~20 seconds. Now it's ready for another pour, subject to the usual delay for temp surfing if you're into that.
Honestly, I doubt that a separate boiler would make much difference to the efficiency of the process. I would buy a machine that is simple, reliable and has a fair weight of brass in the boiler and group head.
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Hildy, what other machines would you suggest that have a faster heat up?Originally posted by Hildy View PostThree single boiler/dual use machines. I don't know how much you can get a gaggia for, but other than price, I think the primary advantage of the non-silvia machines is faster heatup.
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Unless you intend to enter into some kind of weird "heat up time" competition,.... is the sub 10 min that a Silvia take to be ready ..an issue ??
There are even better silvia prices ( <$500 ) if you searchCafe A Roma has some very good prices.
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Not necessarily a bad thing either depending on your budget and usage requirements.Originally posted by Hildy View Postsmaller machines with less metal and smaller boilers will have faster heatup. that means gaggia/saeco.
it's not necessarily a good thing.
The heat-up time on a Saeco Via Venezia is very quick due to its small stainless boiler. For a quick coffee on the run it can be quite handy. The downside is that it forces you to get your technique right especially when using an unpressurised portafilter instead of the standard pressurised one. Temperature surfing is almost mandatory to get a good result but not all that hard to learn. It cools quickly after reaching full temp when the thermostat cuts power to the heating element but taking the time to learn the machine can provide decent results. They are not as forgiving of bad technique as a larger brass boiler machine which heat and cool slower.
I would imagine it was designed as a entry level boiler machine that heats up quick for that 1 or 2 cups in a hurry. Will it make a Rocket quality espresso? Of course not. It sits below the price range of the Silvia and would struggle to match its quality of brew consistently. Having said that, I really enjoyed the challenges of the Via Venezia and would say that it is a really good if not at times frustrating training tool that will quickly highlight any shortcomings in brewing technique, especially when used with a bottomless portafilter. It will teach you the basics of a single boiler machine. At the price point that 2nd hand machines are at ($100-$150 for the latest model), it definetly deserves a place in the coffee machine market. Breville 800ES steam wand mod makes it even better but steaming is slower than larger machines like the Silvia.
The Via Venezia was my first boiler machine and I found the subsequent transition to a Silvia was seamless and very easy thanks to my "training machine".
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Hi 13Bob,
Am exactly in the same boat! This is my first post...At the moment I have a Sunbeam Crema which kicks out a beaut coffee but as the coffee is coming out the steamer activates and I have to stick a cup under the steamer. At a garage sale a couple of months ago we then saw a Krups, the lady said her husband had just left her and she was selling everything of his not nailed down! She said he had only just purchased it and she was not a coffee drinker. The Krups had only been used a couple of times and we picked it up for $30.00, Perfect condition and couldn't believe our luck! However, the steamer on the Krups was terrible,but the coffee came out stronger, so we used the Krups to pour the coffee and the sunbeam Crema for the frother. Perfect Combination! Within two months the Krups pump has gone, rang up a service man who wants $88 for a quote to fix which will be taken off the price. Hubbe now says he can pick up a brand new Sunbeam Cafe Crema with a two years extended warranty, delivered for $180.00! I have been looking at the more expensive machines from $1,000 and the reviews and it seems that many who have purchased cheaper machines have said they deliver better than some of the machines three times the price. I am now figuring if we are happy with the Sunbeam performance(have now figured you put less coffee in for a stronger brew on the double shot!) for $180.00 with a two years warranty it might be the way to go...so looks like we are now going to have a Sunbeam Crema with steam that comes out at the same time as the coffee and a Krups two months old with a pump gone going for cheap if someone wants them that knows how to fix them.
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Welcome cc,
It's obviously up to you and your tastebuds / wallet, but I would be careful how you go about identifying relevant 'reviews'. In many cases it is the operator's inexperience with the pricier options that can make such comparisons a bit 'iffy' (not to mention reviews 'planted' by marketers). In other cases, the reviewers are comparing the Sunbeam to fully automatic machines, paired with pretty ordinary beans (in which case they may well be 'spot on'). I suspect you'll find that the coffee produced by many of the pricier machines (when prepared well, using fresh beans and decent grinder) is superior to the Crema, however, how much you value that (likely) superior taste is ultimately up to you.
P.S. Your suggestion that you use less coffee to produce a stronger brew on the double shot sounds a bit askew. Might be b/c your higher dose was causing a lower volume of coffee to be brewed, which you might then have diluted to a greater extent with milk / hot water.
Cheers
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The Silvia can easily be induced to keep its element on until it is ready to go. As soon as the thermostat switches off from its first heating period, I place a cup under the group head and turn on the brew switch, and turn it off again when the thermostat comes back on. This takes about one small cup of water and about 15 sec. The water moving through the group head and the basket warms up these parts pretty rapidly. Repeat as necessary. Two cycles gets it acceptably warm, three as hot as you'd ever need it. (Or else just get it going 20 minutes before you need it with a digital power timer).Originally posted by CafeLotta View PostHeat up time isn't really an issue if you steam first, flush water through to cool and then brew.
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Hi,
Its not clear to me whether your budget is $1000 for a coffee machine only or a coffee machine plus grinder for $1000. There will be quite a difference if you are spending $1000 on a coffee machine or $700 with
"free" extras plus grinder. Obviously there is no such thing as a free lunch but there maybe a discounted lunch. So you will probably get different advice depending on the answer. The grinder, as you have no doubt found from many sources is as important as the coffee machine albeit somewhat cheaper.
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