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Silvia...what's first? milk or coffee?

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  • Silvia...what's first? milk or coffee?

    I've had the V2 for a week now, and have been discovering it's strengths and weaknesses. One thing that's came up was a conflict on wither to heat the milk or pull a shot first? I do it my usual way and that is shot first, but you know internet land and I've been lead to believe that you're suppose to heat the milk first with this machine. So I tried that but every time I got to pouring the milk it was very unsatisfactory....so I'm sticking to the coffee first routine. Thoughts?

  • #2
    Stick with what works for you Ginger, most pull the shot then steam milk.

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    • #3
      Silvia...what's first? milk or coffee?

      It's much easier to get a consistent brew temp if you pull the shot(s) before steaming milk. If you gronk or PID the machine you'll see why. ;-)

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      • #4
        Yah, I've always poured the milk ASAP after warming, that's why I was surprised to see demos and articles (mainly American mind you) saying milk first. I don't have a manual and was just curious in case the machine worked better that way.

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        • #5
          Easier to quickly heat up for steam than to cool down to a specific temperature after steaming, to brew coffee.

          But that aside, steamed milk starts to lose its velvety texture immediately. If you leave it sitting while waiting for the machine to cool, then even longer while extracting, it ends up as a sudsy texture to pour in.

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          • #6
            Depending on how much water you've used steaming, if you prime the boiler immediately afterwards it should be close to the correct temperature overall (with not a lot of work for your (human) PID to do). if you don't prime, the boiler doesn't have as much water in it and you may get extra intra-shot temperature variation.

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            • #7
              Living with Miss Silvia for 2 years, I found out earlier that steaming the milk first then brewing is the best way to go. The pros of this way is that the boiler is filled up when you pull the shot and there's less steps to do as far as work flow goes.

              My tip for those who find they are struggling with the milk when they are doing the steaming first and brewing second is firstly, heat up the milk til no hotter than 65 degrees. Hotter than this and the milk tends to separate from the foam. My sweet spot for the balance of mouth feel, heat and milk sweetness is around 60- 62 degrees.

              Turn on steam switch.

              Get a damp cloth ready by the side of the machine.
              Remove warmed portafilter, dry wipe and dose freshly ground beans into said filter, level and tamp evenly. Leave by side of machine.
              Steam milk til no more than 65 degrees.
              Wrap cloth around the wand, keep it wrapped and commence cool flushing of grouphead until the sound of spurting water ceases.
              Lock in portafilter to the machine and commence brewing into the cup.
              While it is brewing, tap jug on bench and swirl to keep the milk/foam incorporated.
              Pour milk into cup.
              With the cloth that is wrapped around the wand, clean the wand.
              Knock out puck and flush water to clean out the portafilter. Wipe area dry and enjoy coffee.

              This process is substantially faster with less steps than the normal fashion of brewing first and steaming later, since it's quicker to flush the boiler than to wait for it to heat up.

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              • #8
                Here's something i knocked up yesterday morning using the reverse method on the Silvia.

                Hope my advice helps you ginger or anyone else.
                Attached Files

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                • #9
                  I currently do milk first, pull shot second - it works better for me. I don't like the idea of leaving the shot of espresso so long sitting there while waiting for the boiler to get up to temp for steam. I think it also helps ensure a consistent shot temperature when extracting... most mornings I'm running time deprived, texturing the milk first, then doing the shot, has got to help the machine get up to a stable temp.

                  My technique is :
                  Texture, prime, while grinding into the portafilter it re-warms up, cooling flush, pull shot. I probably use 10x the water anyone else would on a "normal" machine, and I have dreams of replacing this with a HX or DB purely becuase weekends doing 4-8 milk based drinks is becoming a bit of a drag.

                  It works for me, I get a consistent result I'm happy with, and people who try/experience enjoy the result.

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                  • #10
                    Well you can teach an old dog new tricks, I took your tips on board sidewayss and made the best coffee yet..looks like I'm gonna have to practice this a bit more. I get the idea of doing it this way, it is more efficient and seems to produce better results. I'm not a hot coffee drinker wot so ever, the milk was just slightly on the cool at 60 - 62 but I can tweak that for my next cup.....thanks again.

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                    • #11
                      ....second cup equally superb, that's my coffee hit for the day!!

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                      • #12
                        Silvia...what's first? milk or coffee?

                        After PIDing my Silvia I found out why brewing after steam produced such inconsistent results: the temperature fluctuates wildly after steaming, and even with a PID it takes a while to get back to a consistent temperature.

                        While you could conceivably hit the cool down at just the right time, it'd be hard to do every time and you definitely wouldn't want to do it if you were going to do more than one brew.

                        I might try to video the temp monitor on the PID so you can see what happens after a steam.

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                        • #13
                          Glad to help anyone on their coffee journey and share from my past experiences, which is a part of coffee enjoyment. The social interaction.

                          As you gain more time on the machine, you will discover more technique refinement along the way and discover more improvement in your coffee.

                          Fruity, I too have a PID.

                          I flush water via the steam wand til the PID reads 98-100 celcius which is basically when the grouphead stops flashing hot water and a steady stream comes out.

                          Water temp reading coming out of the grouphead then corresponds to 94-96 deg celcius which should be the correct brewing temp.
                          On occasions when I,m called upon to make multiple lattes, the same reverse procedure using the readings as per above, it is consistent enough.

                          Having said all that, we would be interested in a video of the temperature monitoring.

                          Reminds me. I should do a very overdue video of the FZ-RR700 Baby Roaster which no one else had done yet apart from Coffee Tech Engineering....

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                          • #14
                            Silvia...what's first? milk or coffee?

                            sidewayss do you not find the temp fluctuates a lot more after doing your steam purge? I know on mine it takes a while to "settle" and stick at the set temperature point again (although obviously you're just pulling your shot when the temp reading is where you want!)

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                            • #15
                              I dunno about the exact temps, but results are still consistent with the steaming first method. I tried going back to shot first and by the time I got the milk right, the creama was depleted. I went up to a 500ml jug and once that is ready it's a good ol juggle to purge and clean the wand, purge the head, whack the handle in....while constantly swirling the jug. The extraction is far better this way, that's for sure.

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