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Silvia V1 upgrades - which are worth the $?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by papagoose View Post
    I started using this double basket from Talk Coffee a few days ago- already the results seem a lot better than the standard basket, which I had been using for a long time already. I haven't tried any other baskets yet but I am very happy so far with the improvement from this one (plus the price is a lot less than for a VST)- I'm sure my results will improve even more as I get more experience with it. Should definitely have purchased a replacement basket earlier in retrospect
    Good stuff, always nice to hear of a positive outcome.

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    • #17
      Silvia V1 upgrades - which are worth the $?

      Originally posted by robusto View Post
      Best improvement I did to my Silvia was the Auber PID.

      Simple to do and cheap.

      Digital temperature read out is OK for knowing what's going on, but a PID will not only tell you that, it will also regulate to the desired temperature.

      Bigger baskets I like, but overdosing may not be to everyone's taste. Literally.
      Where did you get your Auber PID and do you remember how much it was.

      Thanks Kevin

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      • #18
        PID Temperature Control Retrofit KIT for Rancilio Silvia [KIT-RSRTDNb] - $152.00 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

        $150.

        Or you can get a $40 PID/SSR/TC kit off eBay (PM me if you want a link) which you'll have to figure out and connect yourself (rather than the Auber, which appears to be plug-n-play with all fly-leads provided and terminated.

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        • #19
          Nar, that's not an upgrade. You PID it, but only after after fitting a separate steam boiler which then feeds the original brew boiler. Just solve the thermodynamics, add the requisite autofills, a tank, a couple of gauges, wiring etc and get the whole shebang to talk to a control board. You then have Frankensilvia, Coffee Machinist style.

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          • #20
            Haha!

            Thanks Chris, I am pretty stoked with it. Not what I would call a sensible upgrade decision though, but it's great as a one-off just to see whats possible. Having fitted an Auber to a customer's machine just recently, I was impressed with the scace results at the group. With enough time allowed for the group casting to heat properly and for the PID to recover between shots, there is definitely some semblence of repeatability in shot temperature. Not that this can't be done with a stock Silvia, an LCD temperature meter on the boiler and a bit of finesse though.

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            • #21
              http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post497100

              WOW that is a work of art. Great craftsmanship!

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              • #22
                Or, cheapest possible scenario: you could just learn how to use it how it is. There wasnt anything much wrong with the original silvia in the first place and it's an excellent training ground for any barista to learn the ropes. Mods are for AFTER you learn how to use something and have worked out the reason why you might want to modify it.

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                • #23
                  Is temperature surfing a skill you believe is important for baristas/coffee-enthusiasts?

                  I view it as something a coffee-enthusiast learns to overcome inherent limitations in small/cheap machines. Removing the variable of temperature by controlling it and making it visible enables you to concentrate on your technique as your temperatures are repeatable.

                  Do you feel that commercial/luxury machines are cheating their users out of a learning experience because they employ designs that allow great thermal stability?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TOK View Post
                    Or, cheapest possible scenario: you could just learn how to use it how it is. There wasnt anything much wrong with the original silvia in the first place and it's an excellent training ground for any barista to learn the ropes. Mods are for AFTER you learn how to use something and have worked out the reason why you might want to modify it.
                    Well said TOK, but of course that's not the answer the inveterate tinkerers are looking for.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                      Do you feel that commercial/luxury machines are cheating their users out of a learning experience because they employ designs that allow great thermal stability?
                      Not at all, however I have found that those who have come up through the ranks, starting with a modest machine, learning to make the most of it and upgrading when the desire/funds are available have a better knowledge of things espresso than most who are able to walk in and buy a top of the range machine first up.
                      Pretty much a case of (where to from here?)

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                      • #26
                        I know what you mean, my position is simply that of all the things a barista needs to know how to do manually, maintaining stable/correct temperature during a pull isn't one of them, because there's no art to it as far as I'm aware; you simply want to keep it constant throughout the shot and accurately determine what it is as you might prefer it slightly higher or lower for different coffees.

                        If anything, a thermally unstable machine robs you of the opportunity to experiment with pulling shots at different temperatures and determining the effect on the end result as you can't say "this shot was pulled at 94, this at 95, this at 96. The 94 was the tastiest therefore I will pull my shots at 94 in future for this coffee".

                        I don't think that wasting time/coffee trying to troubleshoot my PF prep technique before realising I was pouring shots at 79-89 degrees has benefited me in the least.

                        Coming at this from a controls/automation perspective:

                        - If you can read temperature at the puck, that tells you exactly (from a practical perspective) what temp you're extracting at.
                        - If you can read temperature at the boiler, that is one step removed and introduces lag into your measurements as heat soaks from element to boiler, then boiler to water and boiler to group, meaning that the information available to you is less useful.
                        - If all you can do is manually energise an element for x amount of time at a point where the boiler has dropped to a certain temperature, that's two steps removed from the variable you want to control (extraction/puck) temp.

                        I think that manipulation of extraction temperature to obtain different attributes in the cup is a barista's skillset.
                        I think that compensating for a lack of information two steps removed from the extraction temperature is a "skill", kinda, but one that is useless the moment you upgrade your machine and one that retards development of the skill of intentional temperature manipulation of a thermally stable machine.

                        Anyway, I'm repeating the same stuff over and over so I should probably leave it at that and agree to disagree

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                          I know what you mean, my position is simply that of all the things a barista needs to know how to do manually, maintaining stable/correct temperature during a pull isn't one of them, because there's no art to it as far as I'm aware; you simply want to keep it constant throughout the shot and accurately determine what it is as you might prefer it slightly higher or lower for different coffees.

                          If anything, a thermally unstable machine robs you of the opportunity to experiment with pulling shots at different temperatures and determining the effect on the end result as you can't say "this shot was pulled at 94, this at 95, this at 96. The 94 was the tastiest therefore I will pull my shots at 94 in future for this coffee".

                          I don't think that wasting time/coffee trying to troubleshoot my PF prep technique before realising I was pouring shots at 79-89 degrees has benefited me in the least.

                          Coming at this from a controls/automation perspective:

                          - If you can read temperature at the puck, that tells you exactly (from a practical perspective) what temp you're extracting at.
                          - If you can read temperature at the boiler, that is one step removed and introduces lag into your measurements as heat soaks from element to boiler, then boiler to water and boiler to group, meaning that the information available to you is less useful.
                          - If all you can do is manually energise an element for x amount of time at a point where the boiler has dropped to a certain temperature, that's two steps removed from the variable you want to control (extraction/puck) temp.

                          I think that manipulation of extraction temperature to obtain different attributes in the cup is a barista's skillset.
                          I think that compensating for a lack of information two steps removed from the extraction temperature is a "skill", kinda, but one that is useless the moment you upgrade your machine and one that retards development of the skill of intentional temperature manipulation of a thermally stable machine.

                          Anyway, I'm repeating the same stuff over and over so I should probably leave it at that and agree to disagree
                          Ummmm, OK.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Changing the screen bolt is a good cheap mod, even if the pucks not hitting that ugly bolt its just annoying to see it.

                            Bottomless portafilter is alot of fun too, not that cheap for what you get, but if you take care of it you can sell it later without loosing too much.

                            And ignore Yelta, get a PID

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                              Ummmm, OK.
                              ??

                              *EDIT* Whups, wrong thread - there was another one that I said pretty much exactly the same thing and I didn't want to harp on is all.
                              Last edited by Dragunov21; 16 April 2013, 04:01 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                                Is temperature surfing a skill you believe is important for baristas/coffee-enthusiasts? I view it as something a coffee-enthusiast learns to overcome inherent limitations in small/cheap machines. Removing the variable of temperature by controlling it and making it visible enables you to concentrate on your technique as your temperatures are repeatable.
                                You temp-surf with a HX machine (with cooling flushes).

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