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Silvia V1 upgrades - which are worth the $?

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  • Dragunov21
    replied
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    ...and of course, everyone here is capable of tasting 0.2 deg
    It's not about being able to taste 0.2° difference. Should I intentionally make the machine perform worse because I can't taste to that level? I wanted control/display that would enable repeatable, verifiable extraction temperatures shot after shot. That's what I got, I find it very useful and the level of control happens to be finer than necessary. I'm ok with that.

    And I'll just ask Yelta/anyone the question straight out - if there were two machines on a shelf, identical with the exception that one was controlled with a 15°C-band thermostat and poor intra-shot temperature stability and no temperature readout, the other controlled to 0.2°C with PID control and a temperature readout, and the difference in price was $40, which would you choose?

    Originally posted by Hildy View Post
    Water where?

    The water in the boiler has its temperature controlled by the PID. There is no water in the group head. The group head should at all times be cooler than maximum temperature of the water in the boiler.
    The water in the boiler? The boiler that's controlled to (in my case) 111°C? to allow for back-to-back shots? If your boiler is controlled to 94 degrees (for instance), the water inside will take a very long time to reach 94 degrees and will drop substantially below as soon as you start to pull a shot.

    The boiler runs hotter to enable the water to maintain required temperature at the puck while room-temperature water is pouring into the boiler at the flow-rate of an "ideal" double-shot extraction.

    In the Gaggia Classic, it is the boiler-housing temp that is measured and the boiler-housing temp that is controlled by the heating element (which then transfers to the water inside), not the water temp itself.

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  • Hildy
    replied
    Originally posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    errr, the water gets too hot.
    Water where?

    The water in the boiler has its temperature controlled by the PID. There is no water in the group head. The group head should at all times be cooler than maximum temperature of the water in the boiler.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bernsbrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Hildy View Post
    Why does a single boiler machine need a cooling flush? How does the group head overheat?
    errr, the water gets too hot.

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  • Hildy
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    If you consider running a single cooling flush on a machine that's been sitting for a while "temperature surfing", then sure.
    Why does a single boiler machine need a cooling flush? How does the group head overheat?

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    ...and of course, everyone here is capable of tasting 0.2 deg
    Of course they are, that's why I always weigh my beans, I've determined that 18.04 grams gives me exactly what I want in my cup, sometimes I have to break a bean to get exactly 18.04g, I find 18.05 chokes the machine and 18.03 results in a gusher, it's the little things that make a difference.
    Last edited by Yelta; 21 April 2013, 03:52 PM.

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  • TC
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    If the following shots are pulled after 3 minutes then they're still at acceptable temps, just not within the 0.2 degree accuracy that is otherwise possible.
    ...and of course, everyone here is capable of tasting 0.2 deg

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragunov21
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    So are you saying you find it necessary to temp surf a PID'd machine?
    If you consider running a single cooling flush on a machine that's been sitting for a while "temperature surfing", then sure.

    If the following shots are pulled after 3 minutes then they're still at acceptable temps, just not within the 0.2 degree accuracy that is otherwise possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    With a little testing (ok, two hours) last night involving a bit of sponge, a calibrated TC and a 100-time-extracted puck, my process is like this (albeit on a Gaggia Classic, not a Silvia).

    With the PID set to a given temperature (92-96°C), from any heated/overheated state, topping up the boiler through the steam wand then flushing a shot and waiting 1.5-3 mins will result in the next shot starting at <1°C below setpoint. rising <0.5°C above and dropping <0.5°C degrees below throughout a 60ml shot, measured at the puck.

    Discard the puck and give three quick pulses to flush the showerscreen then wait at least 1.5 minutes, up to 3, and the next shot will be dead on setpoint, dropping <0.5°C over the shot. This is indefinitely repeatable.

    It takes me ~1:30-1:40 to weigh, grind, dose and tamp so it works out perfectly. It's a bit artless, but it allows me to pull as many shots as I want without waiting before starting on milk.
    So are you saying you find it necessary to temp surf a PID'd machine?

    Leave a comment:


  • damienh7
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Crikey, what a good idea.
    Yeah... although it wasn't necessarily planned, so I can't claim too much credit for the "good idea". The clock was there first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragunov21
    replied
    With a little testing (ok, two hours) last night involving a bit of sponge, a calibrated TC and a 100-time-extracted puck, my process is like this (albeit on a Gaggia Classic, not a Silvia).

    With the PID set to a given temperature (92-96°C), from any heated/overheated state, topping up the boiler through the steam wand then flushing a shot and waiting 1.5-3 mins will result in the next shot starting at <1°C below setpoint. rising <0.5°C above and dropping <0.5°C degrees below throughout a 60ml shot, measured at the puck.

    Discard the puck and give three quick pulses to flush the showerscreen then wait at least 1.5 minutes, up to 3, and the next shot will be dead on setpoint, dropping <0.5°C over the shot. This is indefinitely repeatable.

    It takes me ~1:30-1:40 to weigh, grind, dose and tamp so it works out perfectly. It's a bit artless, but it allows me to pull as many shots as I want without waiting before starting on milk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by damienh7 View Post
    My machine is situated right under a wall clock, with second hand, which is quite handy : )
    Crikey, what a good idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • damienh7
    replied
    Originally posted by fruity View Post
    Not to mention I appreciate not having to count out the temp surf in my head every time I do a coffee. ;-)
    My machine is situated right under a wall clock, with second hand, which is quite handy : )

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Silvia V1 upgrades - which are worth the $?

    Originally posted by damienh7 View Post
    Thanks for all the input guys... and the detour the thread has taken!

    Anyway, this is not my first single boiler machine, so I'm sure I could get away with using it "out of the box" and get pretty good results, but I also have a wife who sometimes uses the machine, and "just wants coffee", so it helps me if she can get a decent coffee from the machine with minimal fuss.

    All things considered, I've got a digital temp read-out to install. I also discovered I had previously bought one of the larger double baskets that I'd purchased while I was using my Silvia. I might pick up a new showerhead screw, but I think that'll be it for now. After a couple of weeks getting to know this particular machine, I'm starting to get consistently good results (the larger basket definitely has helped!).
    Indeed - I didn't need to PID my Silvia, but it made using it a lot easier for the better half!

    Not to mention I appreciate not having to count out the temp surf in my head every time I do a coffee. ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Morning Damien, the detour was simply a way of saying that---some people never experience a problem producing good coffee with a
    Silvia, most people will get along just fine after the initial learning period and the occasional glitch, and some will never get it and always seem to have a drama taking place.

    i.e. too course, too fine, too hot, too cold, basket too full/not full enough, tamped too hard/not hard enough, beans stale/poorly roasted, milk won't foam, steam tip wrong, must have a nekid PF, thermostat set too hot/too cold, must have a PID or at the very minimum gronked, the list goes on.

    These are the types who have trouble working out which is the sharp end of a knife and would probably be better off with a fully auto machine, even then they would probably manage to stuff the process up.

    Leave a comment:


  • damienh7
    replied
    Thanks for all the input guys... and the detour the thread has taken!

    Anyway, this is not my first single boiler machine, so I'm sure I could get away with using it "out of the box" and get pretty good results, but I also have a wife who sometimes uses the machine, and "just wants coffee", so it helps me if she can get a decent coffee from the machine with minimal fuss.

    All things considered, I've got a digital temp read-out to install. I also discovered I had previously bought one of the larger double baskets that I'd purchased while I was using my Silvia. I might pick up a new showerhead screw, but I think that'll be it for now. After a couple of weeks getting to know this particular machine, I'm starting to get consistently good results (the larger basket definitely has helped!).

    Leave a comment:

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