Argh!! Constant under extraction.....

[Erimus]

Hi there,

I've been searching the internet for a solution for this similar problem. I've had the Breville Barista Express for a couple of months now and have been having the same problem as the first post. No matter how I adjust the grind, dosage, tamp it the shot is consistently under extracted running far to fast with the pressure dial barely going higher than the pre-infusion stage.

I work as a Barista and use freshly roasted beans from our roastery (in-house) so I know that's not the problem like it seemed to be for the previous post.

I've been able pull an ok shot everynow and again by stopping the grind and tamping 3 seperate times before actually extracting shot (which is just stupid). I've seen youtube videos where they are using the machine and pulling perfect shots everytime.

Any ideas would be greatly helpful!

These machines are finicky to say the least and all seem to vary a little. However, you should be able to get decent results straight out of the box without modification. It sounds like you have a faulty one, so I'd be looking to exchange it as you could void your guarantee.

[Barry_Duncan]

Hello and welcome Jeb.

I had a Bes860 and had troubles getting it to grind fine enough.

Take a look at:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post526056
and
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post514684

Barry

[TOK]

grind too coarse?

[jebwiseman1]

Same problem as original post!

Hi there,

I've been searching the internet for a solution for this similar problem. I've had the Breville Barista Express for a couple of months now and have been having the same problem as the first post. No matter how I adjust the grind, dosage, tamp it the shot is consistently under extracted running far to fast with the pressure dial barely going higher than the pre-infusion stage.

I work as a Barista and use freshly roasted beans from our roastery (in-house) so I know that's not the problem like it seemed to be for the previous post.

I've been able pull an ok shot everynow and again by stopping the grind and tamping 3 seperate times before actually extracting shot (which is just stupid). I've seen youtube videos where they are using the machine and pulling perfect shots everytime.

Any ideas would be greatly helpful!

[Barry_Duncan]

To get the best out of roasted coffee beans they should be used between about one and three or four weeks after roasting and be freshly ground on demand. Many coffee sellers put the date roasted on their packets, however supermarkets generally use a date best used by, which can be up to two years after roasting. This is a guide to tell staff when to chuck it out.

While coffee sold by supermarkets may once have made acceptable coffee when fresh, after several months on the shelf it is only suitable for garden mulch, not for making quality coffee.

Barry

[gautsch]

There's a thought - tap/bang your handle after you fill it

+1

Be consistent, though. 2 taps/bangs will compress your coffee more than 1. One thing I've learnt is that being consistent is really important.

I had the same problem as you (complete under extraction with mid-level Breville) and getting a better grinder fixed that problem for me.

Cinders, the technique you describe above should work well (levelling before tamping). Keep experimenting and let us know how you go. Maybe get some more fresh cheap beans, as the old ones will mislead you.

[Journeyman]

There's a thought - do you tap/bang your handle after you fill it? My process is:
- half fill or a little more
- shake gently to level out the mound
- fill again until the mound is just at the level of the spout (done right, as I remove the pf the tip of the spout just slightly flattens off the mound)
- shake again to level the mound
- bang handle (the spout) on the cutting board beside where my machine is to 'settle' the grind - it will collapse reasonably evenly by a few mm's. (taking care not to let the handle twist in my hands and so spill my grind )
- Tamp by pressing to required pressure, then release pressure and twist tamper to 'polish' the surface of the grind

This gives me a good pour from my Custom Coffee beans and a drinkable one from the Vittoria beans. My grind is about 3 places different for the good beans compared to the Vittoria's. My tamp pressure is a bit lighter for the good beans.

[Cinders]

Thanks once again everyone, have had a bit more of a play today and I think I have sussed the correct grind / dose & tamper with the good beans, might have a play around with the old ones and see if I can get them working (just because I am stubborn really) I did the grind test and had a friend who popped in blind test and she picked the ones that had been ground coarser so I think my grinder is okay.

I have also changed the way I tamper slightly, saw a u-tube video of someone levelling off the portafilter with a small knife before tamping it (she "pushed" her mounded coffee amount down by gently "cutting" into it with the edge of the knife to evenly distribute it and then levelled it off with the side of the knife, then tamped it), this seems to have improved things for me. Might be the long way round of going about things but until I get better at it I think this might be the way to go.

Thanks once again, and I am sure there will be more questions in time :-)

[Hildy]

But that showed me it is quite possible to get reasonable coffee from supermarket beans. If you are getting watery and under-extracted fast pours it isn't the beans. The beans might mean you don't get the best of flavour but the grind, tamp and dose give you the proper pour and consistency.

Stale beans don't do this unless you grind stupendously fine and/or overstuff.

[Journeyman]

The good beans will give a different result to the supermarket ones. I have 2 different settings for mine and they 'drift' according to age, more so for the good ones than the sm ones.

Did you try the 'feel' test? Another issue might be that some grinders do not clean out the grinds (grounds?) from the previous grind; you may have ground the new beans at somewhere close to the right grind and then the sm beans came with a dose of the good beans in front of the sm beans - I am not sure how that would affect the pour.

Also I have noticed, when I am close to the right grind setting, a very slight difference in the tamping pressure makes a significant difference in the pressure reading and the extraction. I'm about to perform the Ray_C mods on my grinder for exactly that reason - currently it is too variable for me to get a consistent quality in my coffee - same beans, same amount, same (approx) tamp and I can go from bottom of the good pressure on the scale to above the top of the good pressure.

Coffee making is an art but it should not be a psychic art.

[don_nairn]

certainly dossing and tamping are important as well.

lots of variables can lead to confusion

[Steve82]

Bah! Now I am even more confused...........went and got some good beans, came home and put them to the test. The first shot was still under extracted but readjusted the grind setting and bingo, lovely strong coffee, with the pressure gauge reading in the normal range. I came on to post about it and read Journeyman's post, so decided to do a little experiment and re-test the old beans, kept the same setting as for the new beans and the first shot didn't raise the dial at all, and I thought "ha, must be the beans", went and did another shot for good measure and up the dial went into the normal range????

As far as I am aware I haven't changed the dose or tamper (and yep I am tampering right, watched 3 U-Tube videos on it). It doesn't taste as nice as the new coffee and is still a little watery in comparison, but I am stumped as to what the heck I have done / haven't done.

I will have a little more of a play with it, as I don't think I have the grind completely right yet but the experiment has been interesting.

I suggest you eliminate the variable of your dose weight = get some scales.

Search evil bay for 100g x 0.01 DIGITAL PRECISION POCKET JEWELLERY SCALES

at $15 you cant go wrong.

As for beans, just follow the less than 3 weeks from roast date rule and you will be fine. As mentioned above if you can find some in the supermarket such as coles finest or GJ that have appropriate roast date, they will still make pretty decent coffee.

[Cinders]

Bah! Now I am even more confused...........went and got some good beans, came home and put them to the test. The first shot was still under extracted but readjusted the grind setting and bingo, lovely strong coffee, with the pressure gauge reading in the normal range. I came on to post about it and read Journeyman's post, so decided to do a little experiment and re-test the old beans, kept the same setting as for the new beans and the first shot didn't raise the dial at all, and I thought "ha, must be the beans", went and did another shot for good measure and up the dial went into the normal range????

As far as I am aware I haven't changed the dose or tamper (and yep I am tampering right, watched 3 U-Tube videos on it). It doesn't taste as nice as the new coffee and is still a little watery in comparison, but I am stumped as to what the heck I have done / haven't done.

I will have a little more of a play with it, as I don't think I have the grind completely right yet but the experiment has been interesting.

[Journeyman]

I bought Vittoria because I have several friends who drink and like Nescafe - I didn't see the point of wasting my Custom Coffee beans non people who scoffed at the idea of different coffee. And with no exceptions they have loved the Vittoria. One of them now gets the good beans because he showed interest - might make a coffee snob of him yet...

But that showed me it is quite possible to get reasonable coffee from supermarket beans. If you are getting watery and under-extracted fast pours it isn't the beans. The beans might mean you don't get the best of flavour but the grind, tamp and dose give you the proper pour and consistency. Even if the beans are average, changing one (or all) of those 3 things should give you drinkable coffee.

And if single wall and double wall filters are giving the same result, I'd be looking at the process. And if the pour is coming through fast, I'd doubt it is lack of pressure from the machine - that would give a slow pour no matter what.

Silly question, so don't take offence, are you tamping the coffee? I saw a girl at the pub I worked at simply level off the dose and put it on the grouphead - she thought that was what tamping meant. You should be putting a good firm pressure on the dose - I've seen 14 - 18kg weight recommended, but you can vary it depending on the grind and beans. Get hold of some scales and practice with the tamp to see what kind of pressure you are using.

But if tamp, grind and dose are within a fairly broad range of correct and you are not getting any change in the coffee, then I'd guess the grinder is the issue. Grind some beans on coarse and then run the grinds between your fingers. Should feel a bit like sand. Then do it again on finest setting and it should feel like powder - a bit coarser than talcum but in the ballpark of that kind of feel. If there is no difference, your grinder isn't working as it should.

[Cinders]

Thanks guys! Knew I had to get some decent beans, just didn't think that supermarket beans would make that much of a difference (hope I didn't make too many of you spit your coffee out at that remark ), going to bite the bullet and throw the kids in the car and head out for a look (I really want to solve this problem and get me a decent coffee!!). Just looked at the best before date on my pack and based on what you said above Blend 52, I am too embarrassed to let you know what it states.

Shall be back with an update when I find some top notch beans :-)