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Machine Recommendations For A Newbie?
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I'm on my first machine. Mainly drink black at home but occasional milk drinks for friends. I've been happy with my Lelit.
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went to jetblack in Cremorne today to check out some machines. Lelit looks like a little tank and would be a good all round machine (inc the grinders). Couldn't take my eyes off the elektra though!!! Gonna sleep on it
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As far as I'm concerned HX or single boiler machines (including my Bezzera Galatea) have never been lever machines, the term lever applies only to, well, lever machines.Originally posted by flynnaus View PostI think we need to stop referring to HX or single boiler machines with a short brew lever as "lever machines" . Now we refer to machines with the long lever handle such as the Strega, Pompeii, Londinium, Pavoni, Lusso, Cremina etc as "lever machines"
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In my case, it is B... However, I have checked my machine what it does at 3/4 open... there would be water coming out after 3-4 seconds continuously till I engange the switch fully... would this not "wet" the ground sufficiently on the surface? Or does pre-infusion means the whole puck needs to be wet before applying full pressure?Originally posted by MikeS View PostCase B: You are operating from a internal tank. Operating the lever halfway opens the brew valve but otherwise achieves nothing as the water supply pressure in this case is zero, or very close to. When you operate the lever fully and start the pump it will force water into the brew head, which will cause the pre-infusion valve to open. The pressure on the coffee will remain a bit lower than normal brewing pressure until the lower chamber is filled, at which point full pressure will then be developed in the brew head and coffee will be made. In my experience the pre-infusion time in this case is a gnat's less than 5 seconds (from pump start to coffee appearance).
I do hear the distinct change of sound in the pump when, i guess, is at full pressure... '
either way, I do notice I get less channelling recently when I started trying the 3/4 open first before each shot... puck comes out nice and solid where as I had obvious channelling in the middle or the side... but that could also be the changes i made to how I tamp... gentle pressure when twisting to polish the grind...
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Originally posted by okitoki View PostSorry. I mistakenly thinking that when you said a lever machine (for a newbie) is like the semi auto machines like the tea and giotto.
I never used an actual manual lever machine that you pull the handle for pressure shots... And by what I've read is a little harder to learn without guidance... Specially for a new person coming from nespresso
I agree they look really cool but is it practical enough for you to use it daily and produce drinkable shots all the time. There is an ad on gumtree now (at Newport NSW) for a nice La Pavoni manual lever machine, the owner must have bought it on a whim because it looks cool, because he said he has since upgraded to a capsule machine
I'm in the thoughts of trying out cheapish first when trying a new hobby... The breville/sunbeams are popular for people who wants to try out making espresso themselves. If they are happy with it, they keep using it... And if they do really love their coffee, then they would join Coffeesnobs and go buy a nice prosumer range of machine... By the way... All the machines I had were all bought second hand except for the nespresso (which was from collecting points).
Ive already contacted those people from newport
Thats really close to me, no reply yet! It looks like its a Pro too, as it has the temp gauge unless they upgraded it manually (if you can even do that with the cheaper model)
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The answer is, it depends!Originally posted by okitoki View PostJust to go slightly tangent on the discussion here. But the feature of "Pre infusion" used by the e61 where you engaged the lever to 3/4 way up. Is it supposed to be used like that as preinfusion or its just a matter of turning it fully on only to pull a shot?
Or is it just someone doing it in youtube and everyone else thought that its cool and started following it?
Case A: Your E61 lever operated machine is plumbed in. Operating the lever to the halfway position opens the brew valve but does not turn on the pump. This allows the water supply pressure to push water through the HX into the brew head where it starts to preinfuse the coffee grounds. The pressure will eventually build up to the point where it opens the spring-loaded pre-infusion valve and allows water to fill the lower chamber - once this is copmplete the coffee will sit there with full supply pressure on it until you operate the lever the rest of the way and start the pump. Pre-infusion time is determined by how long you wait to move the lever from half to full movement.
Case B: You are operating from a internal tank. Operating the lever halfway opens the brew valve but otherwise achieves nothing as the water supply pressure in this case is zero, or very close to. When you operate the lever fully and start the pump it will force water into the brew head, which will cause the pre-infusion valve to open. The pressure on the coffee will remain a bit lower than normal brewing pressure until the lower chamber is filled, at which point full pressure will then be developed in the brew head and coffee will be made. In my experience the pre-infusion time in this case is a gnat's less than 5 seconds (from pump start to coffee appearance).
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I know I won't get much love from people here talking super-autos, however I've had a Jura Ena 5 for four years and bought a Jura Ena Micro 9 last year which is better. I buy my beans from good reputable roasters and the 9 does warm, tasty shots with a good crema every time. I'm sure a semi auto once practiced would be better but the super-auto is ready to go in 30 secs, so fits in with my morning routine.
if you can get to a Harvey Norman they usually demo these machines on the weekends.
All that said I'm in the process of buying a semi-auto to use on the weekends, but I know the Jura will still be getting a good workout.
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Just to go slightly tangent on the discussion here. But the feature of "Pre infusion" used by the e61 where you engaged the lever to 3/4 way up. Is it supposed to be used like that as preinfusion or its just a matter of turning it fully on only to pull a shot?
Or is it just someone doing it in youtube and everyone else thought that its cool and started following it?
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Agreed. They're e-61 machines. Whilst the interface may look like a lever, in reality it is merely a sexy switch.
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I think we need to stop referring to HX or single boiler machines with a short brew lever as "lever machines" . Now we refer to machines with the long lever handle such as the Strega, Pompeii, Londinium, Pavoni, Lusso, Cremina etc as "lever machines"Originally posted by okitoki View PostSorry. I mistakenly thinking that when you said a lever machine (for a newbie) is like the semi auto machines like the tea and giotto.
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Sorry. I mistakenly thinking that when you said a lever machine (for a newbie) is like the semi auto machines like the tea and giotto.Originally posted by Juvv View PostJust looked up those machines you mentioned that are lever, they seem to be semi automatic? maybe ive found the wrong model?
I never used an actual manual lever machine that you pull the handle for pressure shots... And by what I've read is a little harder to learn without guidance... Specially for a new person coming from nespresso
I agree they look really cool but is it practical enough for you to use it daily and produce drinkable shots all the time. There is an ad on gumtree now (at Newport NSW) for a nice La Pavoni manual lever machine, the owner must have bought it on a whim because it looks cool, because he said he has since upgraded to a capsule machine
I'm in the thoughts of trying out cheapish first when trying a new hobby... The breville/sunbeams are popular for people who wants to try out making espresso themselves. If they are happy with it, they keep using it... And if they do really love their coffee, then they would join Coffeesnobs and go buy a nice prosumer range of machine... By the way... All the machines I had were all bought second hand except for the nespresso (which was from collecting points).
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Thanks mate. Yeah the Lelit seems to be the way to go. I would like to just buy something once and never have to buy again, at least not for being unsatisfied and not liking the quality of coffee.
I dont know enough about PID control, to know wether or not its necessary for someone starting out like me to use it. I guess its better to have than not, as ill get more experienced the more shots I pull (you would hope! )
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Hello Juvv,
I recommend that you revisit sponsors/suppliers to help clarify your thoughts. You will find they have broad experience on a variety of machines. Regardless of what other experts may think, thermoblocks definitely fall into the appliance category. Poor coffee can be produced rapidly with a $50 thermoblock and pressurised portafilter. Most of them use pressurised portafilters and will produce pseudocoffee at best- even with their gimmicks. They go to the tip when they go pop.
A real espressso machine will produce real espresso. It will also last a whole heap longer if well cared for. Good coffee will take time.
Lelit fits your brief well. My perfect shot machine is a VBM Domobar Piccolo. They do come up 2nd hand and are within budget. When correctly calibrated, they are deadly shot machines. A PID can be added later if you want to play with temperature.
As for Breville, the only one currently available I'd even consider is the dual boiler- but some have experienced issues with them. A good grinder and sound technique are paramount.
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Hi Okitoki,
everything you have basically said, is a path I had already "assumed" I may go down, In regards to going nespresso > superauto (because im super lazy, but then probably wont like it) > Decent machine.
Just looked up those machines you mentioned that are lever, they seem to be semi automatic? maybe ive found the wrong model?
Thanks for the advice on the grinder, it seems to be very important in regards to what machine you use , which is why I have thought the all in one semi autos like the lelit would be good because you would "hope" that the manufacturer has customised the grinder specifically for that machine.
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