Breville BES920 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

[thecafeninja]

What are the dates your supermarket beans were roasted on? If you are much more than a month or two post roast, crema will be thin to non-existent. If there is no roast date on the beans you bought, it is certain that they are much more than a month or two old. If you still want crema, you can still possibly get some fake crema by using the double wall baskets. In fact, that's why they make double wall baskets... to generate fake crema. There is a Lavazza bean out there you can buy, that has robusta beans in it, also to make crema. Robusta beans taste nasty, but they make crema like crazy. In fact, crema itself tastes nasty. But in moderation, some people think it adds something to the shot as a whole... the way you might put a little bit of very very hot pepper sauce on your food, but not drown it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbPBOtp4th0&t=198s Skip ahead to the 3:30 point if you wish to hear it from the experts about the horrible taste of crema. But if you have the time, the whole five minutes is worth a listen.

BUT then, why have crema at all? (I get it all the time, because I use beans freshly roasted by myself, and I have good equipment. BUT I let it dissipate before I drink it, because I hate it). Anyway, here is an educational bit about crema, what it is and why: CoffeeGeek - Crema

In short, crema comes automatically if you have all three of the following: fresh beans, good technique, and good equipment. And the BDB is most definitely good equipment. Very very good equipment, in fact. How is your grinder? Is it up to the standard of your espresso machine?

-Peter

Hi Peter, thanks for your help. I have the dynamic duo so it’s the Breville smart grinder. Irrespective of the level of crema, I made a coffee this morning and it was pretty bad. Certainly a lot worse than I can get out of my 6910 sunbeam. I’m a former barista and cafe owner so I think my technique is pretty good so that only leaves the beans but it seems strange to me that having tried 3 different bags of beans (2 non supermarket) that I’m getting such poor quality coffee. I bought a new bag today roasted on 19th feb so I’ll see how those go and maybe I’ll take a video.

[pcrussell50]

By the way, sorry if I came off arrogant...

How are your other fundamentals? Are you seeing reasonable pressures 8-10 bar (it will decline during the extraction and finish at lower pressure and faster flow, which is normal), and reasonable time (25-40 seconds)?

If you are able to get inside those time and pressure windows, AND have fresh beans, you should have good crema.

Otherwise I am at a loss. But it should work if you're not getting channeling... Which I am increasingly suspecting. All an espresso machine does is deliver water at several bars of pressure, and a set temperature (which is what the BDB is particularly good at). If you fail to get crema with your known fresh beans and within those time and pressure windows, it's time to borrow a mate's known good grinder. The smartie is an adequate grinder. BUT if it's brand new, you may need a couple-three kilos of beans through it before the burrs are seasoned. Brand new unseasoned burrs can definitely cause channeling and erratic extraction.

Keep us informed how it goes.

-Peter

[DDTW]

Hi all,

Have been using my BES920 + Smart Grinder Pro every single day (except when I go on holidays) since August 2014 and it has never skipped a beat.

Recently the pre-infusion pump has started playing up, and the descriptions in this BES900 thread matches my situation!

Any other BES920 owners have this issue? Luckily I'm still within my 5 year extended warranty period!

[thecafeninja]

By the way, sorry if I came off arrogant...

How are your other fundamentals? Are you seeing reasonable pressures 8-10 bar (it will decline during the extraction and finish at lower pressure and faster flow, which is normal), and reasonable time (25-40 seconds)?

If you are able to get inside those time and pressure windows, AND have fresh beans, you should have good crema.

Otherwise I am at a loss. But it should work if you're not getting channeling... Which I am increasingly suspecting. All an espresso machine does is deliver water at several bars of pressure, and a set temperature (which is what the BDB is particularly good at). If you fail to get crema with your known fresh beans and within those time and pressure windows, it's time to borrow a mate's known good grinder. The smartie is an adequate grinder. BUT if it's brand new, you may need a couple-three kilos of beans through it before the burrs are seasoned. Brand new unseasoned burrs can definitely cause channeling and erratic extraction.

Keep us informed how it goes.

-Peter

Hi Peter, you are a genius!

Ok so tonight I pulled out my old sunbeam cafe series grinder that I used with my em6910 and my old machine....I ran a double shot through both machines. With the smart grinder on both machines I still got a poor extraction with flimsy crema. I then used the sunbeam grinder and....boom! Beautiful shots with crema you could have a bath in!

So in short, the smart grinder is the problem...so what on earth do I do next other than putting up with awful coffee for several weeks in the hope that the burrs season or is there a way to fast track the process? Thanks so much for your help!

[thecafeninja]

And that’s crappy grinders supermarket stuff!

[thecafeninja]

Nice firm puck too with no channeling

[thecafeninja]

Black sand from Klink in the city...even better...

[prydey]

Did you try grinding finer with the smart grinder? Sounds like you just need to go a bit finer.

[thecafeninja]

Did you try grinding finer with the smart grinder? Sounds like you just need to go a bit finer.

Hi, yes I did - it’s definitely not an issue with the fineness - I took it right down to the point where nothing came through and worked back from there. The issue seems to be with the clumping of the coffee coming out of the grinder causing inconsistencies and weaknesses within the coffee thereby causing channeling (see attached).

[thecafeninja]

Did you try grinding finer with the smart grinder? Sounds like you just need to go a bit finer.

Also I tried a shot through both machines and same issue with channeling on both so it’s the grinder that is the problem.

[Yelta]

Also I tried a shot through both machines and same issue with channeling on both so it’s the grinder that is the problem.

So! you have two coffee machines, a grinder and an operator, you automatically assume its the grinder, have you considered it could well be something to do with the technique of the operator?

[Yelta]

BUT if it's brand new, you may need a couple-three kilos of beans through it before the burrs are seasoned. Brand new unseasoned burrs can definitely cause channeling and erratic extraction.

Can you tell us a little more about this? I've never experienced it.

[pcrussell50]

Can you tell us a little more about this? I've never experienced it.

I was talking about conical burr grinders in general... Or at least the "titan" (commercial grinders used in home environment). I have a grinder with huge conical burrs (from a Robur) and it became way way way less channelly, more consistent, and ground nearly twice as fast, after I ran about a kilo of parboiled rice through it. (Never use regular hard uncooked rice. In fact many grinder makers warn specifically against it.)

I have no specific experience with the Smartie, but being a home-use appliance and not a commercial grinder, I would have expected Breville to have done some form of pre-seasoning in order to reduce customer dissatisfaction over a new machine. I only suggested the need to season, based on 'Ninja's description of his symptoms. Upon further reflection, that kind of behaviour also comes from the case where the outer burr ring is not perfectly concentric with the inner burr, so a possible manufacturing error comes to mind as well.

Further reading of much out there, here is a thread I picked at random: https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...ts-t39850.html

-Peter

[Yelta]

I was talking about conical burr grinders in general... Or at least the "titan" (commercial grinders used in home environment). I have a grinder with huge conical burrs (from a Robur) and it became way way way less channelly, more consistent, and ground nearly twice as fast, after I ran about a kilo of parboiled rice through it. (Never use regular hard uncooked rice. In fact many grinder makers warn specifically against it.)

I have no specific experience with the Smartie, but being a home-use appliance and not a commercial grinder, I would have expected Breville to have done some form of pre-seasoning in order to reduce customer dissatisfaction over a new machine. I only suggested the need to season, based on 'Ninja's description of his symptoms. Upon further reflection, that kind of behaviour also comes from the case where the outer burr ring is not perfectly concentric with the inner burr, so a possible manufacturing error comes to mind as well.

Further reading of much out there, here is a thread I picked at random: https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...ts-t39850.html

-Peter

Interesting, have had no experience with conical grinders, only flat burr.

The only affect I have noticed with new burrs is they do grind quite aggressively for the first few days, never a problem with extraction.

[thecafeninja]

So! you have two coffee machines, a grinder and an operator, you automatically assume its the grinder, have you considered it could well be something to do with the technique of the operator?

No I have two coffee machines, two grinders and have run shots through both machines using both grinders. One grinder produces perfect shots through both machines....and it isn’t the smart grinder! I’m pretty sure it’s not me that’s the problem!