Originally posted by Slider43
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EM6910 control panel lights will not come on!
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Yeah it usually is the steam thermoblock thermal fuse, but there’s one on the brew thermoblock as well which is more likely to be the problem than a thermostat. I think a faulty triac on the PCB can cause this issue as well. This doesn’t always need to be replaced, but should be checked for condition. If you fill the water reservoir through the top sometimes a bit of stray water can spill down onto the PCB and cause problems. Checking for corrosion and drying it out is a good place to start. Beyond that we’ll need input from resident experts such as ‘noidle22’ or ‘Xanthine’.
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Which thermal fuse did you replace?Originally posted by Slider43 View PostAfter searching and reading every post I can find and still not finding my answer your responses seem very knowledgeable and professional so I'm here for advice . We went from an EM6910 to an EM7000 and havnt looked back . However I never got rid of the 6910 that failed for like the 3rd time ( 6 doubles a day for 7 years ) and now in lockdown I'm attempting a resurrection so I can put it in my van . Turn on and steam thermoblock heats up but group head does not . I have removed the top and sides etc . Pipes to group do not get hot and machine never gets ready and just has a flashing green light. Thermo fuse replaced but steam thermoblock works anyway . Should I start another thread for this ? Where should I start? Thermostat ? Thanks in advance .
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After searching and reading every post I can find and still not finding my answer your responses seem very knowledgeable and professional so I'm here for advice .Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
I apologise, I wrote that reply many years ago when I knew very little about the Sunbeam machines. I don't know why i wrote so much when it could have been simplified.
To correct my errors, the "white button thing" is the thermostat which only activates if the thermal fuse for some reason doesn't blow. Sometimes they can be faulty and intermittently go open circuit.
Yes, the thermistor is around 90-100k at room temperature.
The thermal fuse is in the white tube mounted to the side of the thermoblock with blue wires coming out of either end. This is the most common failure.
If the thermal fuse, thermostat and thermoblock element are ok, it may be the thermoblock control relay on the PCB not switching on. This will necessitate a PCB replacement as the relay can't be readily sourced. I've searched for them but haven't been able to find a supplier.
Another thing to check, your machine is an EM6910 and not an EM7000 right? The EM7000 commonly shorts the steam thermoblock relay which can also blow the thermoblock fuse.
I wrote a reply outlining the repair here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...ing-water.html
We went from an EM6910 to an EM7000 and havnt looked back . However I never got rid of the 6910 that failed for like the 3rd time ( 6 doubles a day for 7 years ) and now in lockdown I'm attempting a resurrection so I can put it in my van .
Turn on and steam thermoblock heats up but group head does not . I have removed the top and sides etc . Pipes to group do not get hot and machine never gets ready and just has a flashing green light. Thermo fuse replaced but steam thermoblock works anyway . Should I start another thread for this ?
Where should I start? Thermostat ?
Thanks in advance .
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Sorry not to get back for so long!Originally posted by Xanthine View PostHi rawill
It may be a bit of a long shot, but maybe the steam relay contacts are fused 'on' and it is relying on the thermal cut-out for temperature control. This could be stressing the thermal fuse.
Or, maybe the thermal fuse is too low a rating - Was it an genuine part?
Yes I think it was a genuine part.
But I can't say for sure, all he told me was he put in a better thermal fuse this time.
However, long story short, originally I think the repair shop replaced the brew head thermal fuse.
This time it turned out it was the steam thermoblock thermal fuse that had gone this time.
Fixed by LeroyC who said it had never been replaced.
Can anyone tell me what rating of thermal fuse each of these thermal fuses are?
I want to go a buy just the fuse and crimp in a steam er thermal fuse on another machine.
I have a few here!!
Always searching for the best one for my place!
Eventually I will sell a couple!
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Hi rawill
It may be a bit of a long shot, but maybe the steam relay contacts are fused 'on' and it is relying on the thermal cut-out for temperature control. This could be stressing the thermal fuse.
Or, maybe the thermal fuse is too low a rating - Was it an genuine part?
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G'day again rawillOriginally posted by rawill View PostHi guys.
I know it is an old thread, has to be good though, I started it!
And you guys supplied all the info I needed.
However, now the fault which prompted the first post, has occurred again.
I gave the machine to my daughter, after I had replaced the thermal fuse for the 2nd time.
Now it has gone again, I think, same symptoms.
It has happened after the steam thermoblock blocked.
We got it cleared with a vinegar solution, next day the green light came on, no other lights.
So I assume thermal fuse again, (doing this by remote! I live 1200km away from the machine!).
Just wondering what I should look for that makes this machine blow its thermal fuse.
It is a great machine, I fitted a new collar just before I gave it to my daughter, and it has a new steam thermoblock in it, it was blocked when I got it so I replaced it.
Machine has probably done between 10-12,000 shots.
My 7000 kept doing that (three times in all) until I realised that it overheated on standby when I increased the standby time. None of my three live 6910s ever did it, however the 6910 machines warms up so fast I never did increase the standby time on any of them. Just a thought.
My other thought - is that a 6910 you replaced the steam wand with a 4820 one?
I hope all is well in NZ.
Regards
TampIt
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Hi guys.
I know it is an old thread, has to be good though, I started it!
And you guys supplied all the info I needed.
However, now the fault which prompted the first post, has occurred again.
I gave the machine to my daughter, after I had replaced the thermal fuse for the 2nd time.
Now it has gone again, I think, same symptoms.
It has happened after the steam thermoblock blocked.
We got it cleared with a vinegar solution, next day the green light came on, no other lights.
So I assume thermal fuse again, (doing this by remote! I live 1200km away from the machine!).
Just wondering what I should look for that makes this machine blow its thermal fuse.
It is a great machine, I fitted a new collar just before I gave it to my daughter, and it has a new steam thermoblock in it, it was blocked when I got it so I replaced it.
Machine has probably done between 10-12,000 shots.
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I apologise, I wrote that reply many years ago when I knew very little about the Sunbeam machines. I don't know why i wrote so much when it could have been simplified.Originally posted by rh2600 View PostThanks for the info - just to be clear I think your measurements might be out. For instance the thermistor rating is ~100k ohms right? not just 90?
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post568516
Given this can you confirm exactly what you meant for the steam thermoblock - I've just replaced the thermistor thinking I had located a failed one, but in fact the original was working the same as the new replacement (87k), now I'm wondering if the thermoblock itself is the problem...
To correct my errors, the "white button thing" is the thermostat which only activates if the thermal fuse for some reason doesn't blow. Sometimes they can be faulty and intermittently go open circuit.
Yes, the thermistor is around 90-100k at room temperature.
The thermal fuse is in the white tube mounted to the side of the thermoblock with blue wires coming out of either end. This is the most common failure.
If the thermal fuse, thermostat and thermoblock element are ok, it may be the thermoblock control relay on the PCB not switching on. This will necessitate a PCB replacement as the relay can't be readily sourced. I've searched for them but haven't been able to find a supplier.
Another thing to check, your machine is an EM6910 and not an EM7000 right? The EM7000 commonly shorts the steam thermoblock relay which can also blow the thermoblock fuse.
I wrote a reply outlining the repair here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...ing-water.html
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Thanks for the info - just to be clear I think your measurements might be out. For instance the thermistor rating is ~100k ohms right? not just 90?Originally posted by noidle22 View PostMost problems like these tend to stem from a faulty control board. I had a 6910 the other day that had the same symptoms as yours.
If it just keeps flashing but doesn't turn on properly it generally means the control board is receiving insufficient feedback from a part of the machine and wont turn on. In the case of the machine I had, the steam thermoblock wasn't heating so the thermistor on the thermoblock wasn't giving the right response to the board to indicate the thermoblock is up to temperature thus the machine just keps trying to heat up.
A simple way to check if one of the themoblocks is the problem, switch the machine on and let it run for 30 seconds or so the feel the shower screen. If it's hot then the group thermoblock is ok. You'll then need to check the steam thermoblock. Open the back cover and remove the screws holding the plastic cover over the back of the machine. Once removed you'll be able to see the steam thermoblock, just behind on the right of the pump. MAKE SURE the machine is off and unplugged as you don't want to be fiddling around live electricity.
Reach in and lightly touch the steam thermoblock, it should be pretty hot if it's working properly. If it's not hot at all then there's a problem there.
You can check the thermoblock element with a multimeter set on ohms, you should see around 40-50 ohms if I remember correctly. If you get a reading like this, it can be assumed the thermoblock is ok. (You'll need to remove the top cover for this test).
Also check the thermal fuse attached to the thermoblock, its the small white button looking thing with 2 wires coming out of it. It should be closed circuit. With a multimeter set on ohms, it should read the same or very close to the same as what is read when you touch both multimeter probes together, basically a closed circuit. If you get an open circuit reading, the thermal fuse has blown and will need to be replaced. If it blows again soon after replacement, it can be assumed there's something defective in the steam thermoblock and it will need to be replaced.
You can also check the steam thermoblock thermistor to make sure it isn't open circuit or in some other way defective and not sending the right values to the board. The thermistor Is the small orange button thing with 2 white wires coming out of it. Remove the bracket holding the thermistor in place and remove the thermistor. Trace the wiring and unplug it from the control board. Then with you multimeter set on ohms, connect the probes to the plug that you removed from the board. At room temperature it's about 90 ohms I think.
Then get a radiant heat source and heat up the thermistor. If it's working, the value on the multimeter will start to drop. Once the heat source is removed, the resistance will stabilise and gradully start to increase again. The thermistor is ok if these tests show this.
The control board is the problem if all these tests are positive. If the steam thermoblock is working when you first test it then it can be assumed that the control board is at fault anyway.
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post568516
Given this can you confirm exactly what you meant for the steam thermoblock - I've just replaced the thermistor thinking I had located a failed one, but in fact the original was working the same as the new replacement (87k), now I'm wondering if the thermoblock itself is the problem...
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Thank you, TampIt.
When I said 'control board' I meant the... like... motherboard part. Sorry, excuse my ignorance. I'm pretty clueless.
I'll do the white vinegar thing tonight.... if it is functioning for me tonight, that is!
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Hi ErinMorOriginally posted by ErinMor View PostMy second hand EM6910 is doing this. Does this mean the control board is on the way out?
I'm guessing the original owner probably sold it because issues were beginning. When we first got it, it had the flashing light problem when it started up and the group head thermoblock worked but the steam one didn't. That happened on about the 5th cup we made. Then it was ok. But gradually it has gotten worse and worse to the point now where sometimes neither work, the light just doesn't stop flashing. The next day though, after a couple of on/offs it may work fine, both thermoblocks or just the grouphead, then the next day it craps itself again.
So what does it cost to get the control board replaced? Any chance my electrician brother could work it out (he's not a repair man)? We bought the machine for only $93 and hoping not to pay too much to fix it (it also needs a need group head collar which I'll attempt to fix myself). Money is tight here at the moment so if it's going to cost a lot we may have to kiss the espresso goodbye and drink plunger or, gulp, instant.
Thanks for any forthcoming advice. Cheers.
Before you pull the machine apart, most secondhand 6910's I have encountered have been filthy beyond all sanity. A thorough clean (say using white vinegar as per manual) may fix it for you. Bad news: it will take a lot of water to flush it out afterwards. I find I can still taste / smell the stuff after 4 litres. Until the water from the group is drinkable, keep flushing!
The thermostat is a cheap ($5?) part at the top front right hand corner. Major surgery to get at, so a bill of about $75 from (SB warranty repairers in Hilton, West Oz) was about right if you are not into pulling stuff apart. Of course, it could be the control board, however apart from flooding / drowning they tend to be OK.
The service manual link is http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post493973.
Good luck, hopefully you can enjoy a few more cuppas from it.
TampIt
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My second hand EM6910 is doing this. Does this mean the control board is on the way out?Originally posted by TampIt View Post
One minor addition, I ran into one erratic 6910 where the main thermostat was intermittent - took a bit of tracing. It would work (mostly) then fail just often enough to be a pain (according to the friend that owned it). According to a local repairer, that is not too rare.
I'm guessing the original owner probably sold it because issues were beginning. When we first got it, it had the flashing light problem when it started up and the group head thermoblock worked but the steam one didn't. That happened on about the 5th cup we made. Then it was ok. But gradually it has gotten worse and worse to the point now where sometimes neither work, the light just doesn't stop flashing. The next day though, after a couple of on/offs it may work fine, both thermoblocks or just the grouphead, then the next day it craps itself again.
So what does it cost to get the control board replaced? Any chance my electrician brother could work it out (he's not a repair man)? We bought the machine for only $93 and hoping not to pay too much to fix it (it also needs a need group head collar which I'll attempt to fix myself). Money is tight here at the moment so if it's going to cost a lot we may have to kiss the espresso goodbye and drink plunger or, gulp, instant.
Thanks for any forthcoming advice. Cheers.
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Thank you guys, what great info.
I will wait to see how it performs with the new thermal cutout.
And I will keep this thread bookmarked.
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+1 for all that.Originally posted by noidle22 View PostMost problems like these tend to stem from a faulty control board. I had a 6910 the other day that had the same symptoms as yours.
If it just keeps flashing but doesn't turn on properly it generally means the control board is receiving insufficient feedback from a part of the machine and wont turn on. In the case of the machine I had, the steam thermoblock wasn't heating so the thermistor on the thermoblock wasn't giving the right response to the board to indicate the thermoblock is up to temperature thus the machine just keps trying to heat up.
A simple way to check if one of the themoblocks is the problem, switch the machine on and let it run for 30 seconds or so the feel the shower screen. If it's hot then the group thermoblock is ok. You'll then need to check the steam thermoblock. Open the back cover and remove the screws holding the plastic cover over the back of the machine. Once removed you'll be able to see the steam thermoblock, just behind on the right of the pump. MAKE SURE the machine is off and unplugged as you don't want to be fiddling around live electricity.
Reach in and lightly touch the steam thermoblock, it should be pretty hot if it's working properly. If it's not hot at all then there's a problem there.
You can check the thermoblock element with a multimeter set on ohms, you should see around 40-50 ohms if I remember correctly. If you get a reading like this, it can be assumed the thermoblock is ok. (You'll need to remove the top cover for this test).
Also check the thermal fuse attached to the thermoblock, its the small white button looking thing with 2 wires coming out of it. It should be closed circuit. With a multimeter set on ohms, it should read the same or very close to the same as what is read when you touch both multimeter probes together, basically a closed circuit. If you get an open circuit reading, the thermal fuse has blown and will need to be replaced. If it blows again soon after replacement, it can be assumed there's something defective in the steam thermoblock and it will need to be replaced.
You can also check the steam thermoblock thermistor to make sure it isn't open circuit or in some other way defective and not sending the right values to the board. The thermistor Is the small orange button thing with 2 white wires coming out of it. Remove the bracket holding the thermistor in place and remove the thermistor. Trace the wiring and unplug it from the control board. Then with you multimeter set on ohms, connect the probes to the plug that you removed from the board. At room temperature it's about 90 ohms I think.
Then get a radiant heat source and heat up the thermistor. If it's working, the value on the multimeter will start to drop. Once the heat source is removed, the resistance will stabilise and gradully start to increase again. The thermistor is ok if these tests show this.
The control board is the problem if all these tests are positive. If the steam thermoblock is working when you first test it then it can be assumed that the control board is at fault anyway.
One minor addition, I ran into one erratic 6910 where the main thermostat was intermittent - took a bit of tracing. It would work (mostly) then fail just often enough to be a pain (according to the friend that owned it). According to a local repairer, that is not too rare.
TampIt
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