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Advice reg Breville BES870 Barista Express

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  • Advice reg Breville BES870 Barista Express

    Dear Coffee Snobs...

    I've got a BES870 coffee machine that comes with a burr grinder that has pre set dosing for single and double filter size, and the grind amount and size are adjustable.

    For single shots, I set the grind amount to almost minimum, use the pre set dosing for single filter and use a single wall single shot filter. This gives me about 10 grams of ground coffee, filling the filter nicely and shots pulled under this set up is pretty good.

    However for double shots, I find that under the same grind size and grind amount (almost minimal) settings, the pre set dosing for double shot produces too much ground coffee - it spills over the side. After tamping the coffee into the single wall double shot filter, I find that the coffee is under-extracted.

    Questions:
    Does anyone have the same issue of the grinder producing too much ground coffee under the pre set settings for a double shot?
    Under the 'ideal' settings for a single shot (grind size, grind amount, consistent tamping), can I just use twice the amount of ground coffee in a double shot filter or do I still need to tweak the grind size and amount?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Hi Kopikau,

    I'm a new member here too and I recently bought the same machine. I had exactly the same problem when I first started. I had some left over Vittoria beans which I had been using in my old fully automatic DeLonghi (don't get me started, for the amount I'd paid in repairs on that machine over 6 years, I could have had bought a much better machine, probably a few times over). Once I'd used all the old beans (and after reading a lot about it on here) I went out and bought some more recently roasted beans from Axil in Hawthorn. I found with the fresh beans; it was a lot easier to get the right amount and extraction. If you are using supermarket beans, I would suggest trying some freshly roasted. Hope this helps.

    regards

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Linners

      Thanks for your reply! Good to know there's another BES870 owner out there!

      I use Artful Dodger beans so I guess they're not the issue here

      I've dropped you a PM, would love to know about your experience with your machine.

      Thanks again!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Kopikau,

        Thanks for the PM. I have been pretty happy with my machine so far (I've only had it a couple of weeks). As both my wife and I were used to a fully automatic; I wanted something that didn't break the bank, allowed some experimentation, but didn't have a steep learning curve so that my wife wouldn't be put off using because it was too complicated. I detest the idea of pods and the whole "experience" they try to sell (walk past any Nespresso store and see what I mean; I can't believe people buy into it). I had used an older, basic Breville 800 and had been pretty happy with it, but I wanted to have fresh beans; so the dosing grinder built in was good too (again, I didn't want the whole experience to be too complicated). I'll reply in more detail to your PM; I had a go at some double shots this morning.

        regards

        Linners73

        Comment


        • #5
          I've been having the same problem since I got this machine a couple of weeks ago, and it has been a bit annoying because of the mess it made. The only solution I have come up with is to change the filter size to "single" and by playing around with the grind amount dial until I found the correct amount (which for me is roughly in the second most shaded area closer to "more". When I want a single shot I just set the dial back to the minimum amount.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey,

            i have aver bought this machine and I am having trouble with extraction of the double basket. Seems to get no pressure and coming out real fast. I am grinding very finely and my tamp seems to be right. The machine is also over dosing even when set on minimum. I just can't seem to influence the dose or the extraction process regardless. Is the machine faulty?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Carlstephen,

              Have you tried the single basket? Do you still have the same issues? What beans are you using?

              regards

              Linners73

              Comment


              • #8
                hi all,
                my wife and i bought the 870 a few weeks ago and have been tinkering with it for the best results.

                Dose Settings:
                I started by following the instructions!! filled the double basket (a ridiculous amount came out and i had to stop it there was soo much spilling beyond the formed mound), tamped and then used "the blade" (grind setting was at 6). Extract ran through like water. Did the same again with a finer grind (4) ... tamped even harder and still ran through like water... pressure guage didn't get past pre-infusion!!

                So realising that the instructions were useless I took matters into my own hand.

                I now use a grind setting of 2.

                I tamp with alot of pressue... they recommend about twice as much as you would use on a commercial machine and i do that with probably a smidge more. (they recommend 15 to 20 kgs of pressure - to understand roughly how much that is - use your hand to to get to that weight on bathroom scales)


                For a double dose i use the 4th notch past 12 o'clock on the machine (I find the single and double selection button not that useful).

                For a single dose I use between the 2nd and 3rd notch past 12 o'clock on the machine.

                On occasion you'll need to drive the portafilter in with abit more force but, if it definitely doesn't want to go in don't force it. start again.

                Tamping - I find that if you tamp and can visually see half of the silver edging from the tamp outside the top of the basket (for both single and double baskets) then you should:
                1. get a good extraction in the espresso range
                2. Be able to get it into the portafilter without too much trouble.

                If the extraction is still week then tamp harder - ensuring that you still can see the half of the tamp outside the basket.

                Remember to be ready to hit the extract button as soon as you put in the portafilter as the coffee will start to burn after a few seconds if left sitting in the machine.

                once you're extracting ok the the results will depend on the beans... for some beans a mid range extract gives great results, on others we need to get to the high end of the range to get the flavour that comes close to equalling cafe style coffee.

                on a side note i will say that we've been able to replicate cafe quality coffee with this machine - but we had to disregard their instructions.

                Hope that can help you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I understand that BES870 is the updated BES860 therefore the insides will be similar.

                  Take a look at:
                  http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post514684

                  Methods of adjusting the cogs that adjust fineness of the grinder on BES860 were developed and discussed by jolt, alias aussiebuddhah and I.

                  I have not been able to download the earlier posts mentioned as there were big changes made to this site.

                  I hope that this helps some of you to get better coffee out of your machines.

                  Barry

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Vinny, I agree with you.
                    Using the "blade" removes too much coffee and results in a fast extraction and a weak coffee. Like you said, you need to dose a little bit more and then apply a lot of pressure on the tamper to get close to the 30 sec extraction.
                    I set the grind at 8 and the dose at the first notch after 12 o'clock - this works for both the single and double shots for me.
                    Just for reference, I had a BES860 before and to get a 30 sec extraction you really had to tamper hard and fill the basket as full as you could. The BES870 has improved heaps on this but it still requires a bit of finessing.

                    The first BES870 I bought had a problem with the dose dial. You could move it from 11 to 3 o'clock with no effect on dose. I took the machine back to the store and they replaced it without fuss (The Good Guys). The new one works fine but I think Breville have set the minimum dosage too high on all the machines.

                    In summary though I'm extremely happy with my machine and can consistently produce great froth and excellent coffee.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good to know I'm not alone!
                      Ended up having to take the machine back due to the dosing issues (probable cause of grinder) and also the steaming wand started to play up - stopping half way through and the like.
                      Had to call Breville and explain the issues prior to the retailer taking it back for a swap. It's a 12 month repair warranty but due to the young age of the machine (4 weeks) they gave me a reference number to give to David Jones and so i have my replacement on order.
                      Similarly, happy with the machine and hope that the replacement behaves a little better.

                      VP

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As an update: New machine behaves much more normal.
                        Dosing, both single and double is working well, the 'blade' does make more sense now (although I don't really use it, but i can see how if you have issues with dosing, it could be handy).

                        Grinder also works well, currently on setting of 6.

                        Very happy with this machine!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Greetings All

                          My first post. Firstly my appreciation to the posters describing their experiences with this machine it helped me in making my decision on which machine to buy.

                          However, my experience with this machine has not been an entirely happy one.

                          Firstly, with the dose set at one o'clock, the (2 cup) portafilter overflows, wastes coffee and makes a mess (why on earth would you have the need to turn the dose all the way round to the eight o'clock position ? Once it's full, it's full)

                          The steamer runs out of grunt and stops after one jug of milk. This means forget about making flat whites for three or more people in a reasonable time. The manual states that the machine will automatically disable the steam function after 5 minutes of operation. I'm lucky to get 2 minutes!

                          With the grind setting at 5, a very very light tamp, the pour starts out very thin pour for about 10 seconds and then suddenly frees up and runs much freer for the rest of the pour. The pressure gauge remains in the "Ideal zone".

                          The machine makes much better coffee than my old Saeco Automatic, but it should be making even better coffee without the hassles if it performed to expectations as per the manual.

                          At the moment, after running through about 500 grams of beans, I'm disappointed with my decision. Anyone else having these issues (or resolved them)?

                          regards

                          Graham

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GrahamE View Post
                            Greetings All

                            My first post. Firstly my appreciation to the posters describing their experiences with this machine it helped me in making my decision on which machine to buy.

                            However, my experience with this machine has not been an entirely happy one.

                            Firstly, with the dose set at one o'clock, the (2 cup) portafilter overflows, wastes coffee and makes a mess (why on earth would you have the need to turn the dose all the way round to the eight o'clock position ? Once it's full, it's full)

                            The steamer runs out of grunt and stops after one jug of milk. This means forget about making flat whites for three or more people in a reasonable time. The manual states that the machine will automatically disable the steam function after 5 minutes of operation. I'm lucky to get 2 minutes!

                            With the grind setting at 5, a very very light tamp, the pour starts out very thin pour for about 10 seconds and then suddenly frees up and runs much freer for the rest of the pour. The pressure gauge remains in the "Ideal zone".

                            The machine makes much better coffee than my old Saeco Automatic, but it should be making even better coffee without the hassles if it performed to expectations as per the manual.

                            At the moment, after running through about 500 grams of beans, I'm disappointed with my decision. Anyone else having these issues (or resolved them)?

                            regards

                            Graham
                            I don't have any problems with steam so it sounds like you may have an issue there, best give Breville customer service a ring or just exchange it and tell them you're not satisfied with its performance.
                            As for the dosing I always have a huge mound on the 2 cup setting on minimum setting, this settles with a couple of firm taps on the counter. I even tried supermarket beans to check if the dose altered and with old beans I don't need to go past 3 o'clock. Don't try this, the coffee is yuck. Not that I use it much, but the 1 cup dose behaves much better. You could try 2 one cup doses to see if that would give a better dose or stop it yourself manually. Also try some different roasts.
                            What part of the ideal zone are you in? it's a huge area and the best results come from the 12 to 1 o'clock area just before the last shaded grey bar, taste it and see.
                            I think you should be grinding finer and/or tamping a bit harder and aiming for the sweet spot on the pressure gauge.
                            Without doubt it's a finicky machine. Once you get used to it you'll make great lattes, but forget about it as an espresso machine.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Brevillista

                              Thanks for your comments and advice.

                              Today I set the grind to 7 and tamped a little heavier. I think I'm getting close to the sweet spot as the flow came out much better.

                              however, according to the Extraction Guide that came with the machine I'm not there yet.

                              For example, the guide states (under the heading Correct Extraction ) ... Flow starts 4-7 seconds and will take 25-35 seconds. Under the heading for Over Extraction it states ... Flow starts after 8 seconds and extraction will take more than 40 seconds.

                              The cups this morning were somewhere in between. The flow took 10-11 seconds to start and the extraction was around 20 seconds.

                              I'm resigned to having the ground coffee overflow from the portafilter as I don't think this can be avoided ( at the end of the day it's not a significant amount)

                              I'll contact Breville regarding the problem with the steamer.


                              Thanks again for your help

                              cheers

                              Comment

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