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Upgrade from a Silvia... Really confused.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Robbks View Post
    The lever only activates a micro-switch to turn on the pump.
    whilst it certainly does activate the pump switch, that is not the only thing it does.
    it also controls the flow valves for brew water, pre infusion, and drain, which can make considerable difference depending on how that lever is operated !
    ..But nothing a 5 min training session wouldn't take care of !

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    • #32
      Originally posted by jbrewster View Post
      Err, no. If it's properly setup (which if it was originally sold by Talk_Coffee, it will be) all you need to do is a quick purge (flip on, flip off). No "cooling flush" required.
      same thing.
      on/ off is moving water from the HX and through the group is it not?


      please explain (to a person with vast knowledge of both electronics and fluids/ thermal engineering)
      what your "flip on flip off" procedure is actually achieving if my statement above is not true.

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      • #33
        If it is simply a micro switch it is essentially an on/off setup as the unit would have no way of detecting any absolute position of the lever to exercise any level of variable control.

        If it was progressive (ie NOT a micro switch) then I can see the possibilities for manual control of pre-infusion, flow and volume control. But this would either require an manual spring setup or some electronic position setup.

        So is it JUST a micro switch or is there actually some smarts involved? I was under the impression that the lever offered more control than simply on/off (based purely of watching people pull shots on you tube!)
        Last edited by bainpj; 29 May 2014, 01:47 PM. Reason: Grammer

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        • #34
          Last edited by bainpj; 11 Minutes Ago at 12:47 PM. Reason: Grammer

          Next edit by chokkidog. Reason.... not grammar..........spelling! ;-)

          Do I detect some confusion over Lever and Lever machines? :-D

          Just to be clear, baunpj ( and welcome to CS, by the way. ) which type are you referring too?
          Attached Files

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          • #35
            Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
            Last edited by bainpj; 11 Minutes Ago at 12:47 PM. Reason: Grammer

            Next edit by chokkidog. Reason.... not grammar..........spelling! ;-)

            Do I detect some confusion over Lever and Lever machines? :-D

            Just to be clear, baunpj ( and welcome to CS, by the way. ) which type are you referring too?
            haha got me there! :P

            By lever we are talking about the lever setup on a Giotto Rocket (well I was seeing that is the machine in question). So I assume that is the LH picture which activates a PUMP. I am pretty sure the RH one is a fully mandraulic setup which isn't what I am interested in (or can afford).

            EDIT: this forum changes L O L (remove spaces) to "I had a laugh"?????

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            • #36
              Taken from the posts above (in reference to E61 type group):

              Quote: "...The lever only activates a micro-switch to turn on the pump...."
              Fraid not.

              Quote: "...it also controls the flow valves for brew water, pre infusion, and drain,..."
              Could be expanded a little, but in a nutshell, Yup.

              Quote: "...So is it JUST a micro switch or is there actually some smarts involved?..."
              The mechanical design engineering smarts are inside the group, The lever actuates them. The cam connected externally with the lever activates the microswitch to start water flow at the same time as the "smarts" are happening inside the group.

              There may be a diagram of the internals of an E61 group in this forum somewhere. If not check coffeeparts website and you shall find.

              This set up revolutionised the design of the commercial espresso machine and was in effect the birth of modern commercial espresso machine technology.

              Hope that helps.
              Last edited by TOK; 29 May 2014, 02:52 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                Misinformation and I wish people wouldn't regurgitate this 10 year old stuff. Times change and well manufactured espresso machines operate correctly. We don't deal in brands that don't and I'm pretty certain that statement applies to all sponsors here. We sell machines which are manufactured and calibrated for the Australian market. So do the others.
                Can I ask how an E61 HX machine is calibrated such that you don't need a flush, yet remains temperature stable?

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                • #38
                  That's "commercial in confidence" I'm afraid...If someone tells you how to manufacture / tune machines to suit different markets, afraid they might also have to kill you afterwards

                  That said, yes its certainly true that machines are built / set up differently for different markets. Easiest example is to look at machines set up for their "home" (Italian) market, and those set up for here. One will invariably burn the brew, and the other shouldn't. New importers always bring in machines as built for their home market first up. Then they discover their machines run too hot and burn their coffee, then they go back to the manufacturer and try and sort it out (if they know enough about coffee).

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bainpj View Post
                    So is it JUST a micro switch or is there actually some smarts involved? I was under the impression that the lever offered more control than simply on/off (based purely of watching people pull shots on you tube!)
                    The electrical switch is a microswitch. It is activated when the lever is at ~50% throw. This (roughly) coincides with the point at which the exhaust port is closed and the brew port is opened.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hildy View Post
                      Can I ask how an E61 HX machine is calibrated such that you don't need a flush, yet remains temperature stable?
                      Sure thing. When you'd like to make an offer I can't refuse for the business so as to keep me permanently in the manner I'll become accustomed to, we'll happily hand over all of our I.P
                      Last edited by TC; 29 May 2014, 06:24 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Has this mod been done to the Giotto you have there?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bainpj View Post
                          Has this mod been done to the Giotto you have there?
                          Nope- not required beyond Premium Plus variant. Our Giotto stock has all arrived in the last couple of weeks- all V3 and Evoluzione.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hildy View Post
                            Can I ask how an E61 HX machine is calibrated such that you don't need a flush, yet remains temperature stable?
                            I don't pretend to know the answer, but I suspect boiler pressure setting and thermosiphon restrictions are key to achieving required group and shot temperature; however I suspect there is a trade off between achieving a balance that requires little flushing and a setup that permits high volume usage (i.e quick recovery).

                            If you search for thermosiphon restrictions you will find lots of E61 related info, including fixed and variable restriction options.

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                            • #44
                              Just to head back to the OP's original question...

                              From a 'Bang-for-Buck' perspective, it is very difficult to go past the Simonelli Oscar. Lots of very satisfied owners here on CS and if the urge ever took you, it would not be a difficult exercise to further improve on some aspects of its design post warranty period, especially given your engineering background.

                              Mal.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bainpj View Post
                                ....my faithful Silvia finally died......I could get another Silvia..... but it was not the easiest machine. Temperature surfing for consistent results was a bit annoying and it was useless entertaining. But it’s cheap compared to an upgrade....

                                .......Uses: Mainly milk drinks with the odd espresso. Occasional hot chocolate for visitors so hot water would be good but not a must.

                                ......We entertain quite a bit which is the main reason why i am looking at something other than another Silvia.

                                I have a K3 Touch grinder.....

                                ..........Any experience or thoughts? The more I read the more confused I get!

                                I thought I could find a second hand machine, but they seem few and far between and still quite expensive!

                                Thanks in advance for the help!
                                Pete
                                Requirements as per this quote taken from your original post?
                                On a budget?
                                Absolutely cant stretch it to the TalkCoffee offer in post #16 above?
                                Then take a look at this:
                                http://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-har...hine-sale.html

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