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Help for a newbie BES 870 vs 920

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  • #16
    Help for a newbie BES 870 vs 920

    Good choice. I'd say they're both good machines for starters, but in some respects they can't be compared. The 920 has some commercial features that the 870 doesn't have. A 58mm portafilter and a proper dual boiler rather than a thermoblock are two things that should keep you happy with the 920 for years. Programmability and other intelligent features are an added bonus. The 870 would've seen you wanting an upgrade before long I reckon.
    Just be aware that the longer you can give the machine to warm up the better (within reason). I have a Gaggia Classic at the moment and it is supposedly at temp after less than 5min. I know from experience that if I pull a shot at this stage its average. After 5-10min I flush some water through the group to help warm it up, then allow another 10min for temps to stabilize a bit. If I'm in a hurry a 15min warm up is ok and the minimum I'll allow. With the Gaggia it improves beyond that, but gets complicated with flushes and boiler refills etc. All of which is ok if I have time and its worth it, but 15min is a happy minimum. So while I don't know the specifics of the BES920 I'd apply the same principle, and use the timer to achieve this if necessary. Does it actively heat the group? Being the 'intelligent' machine it is I'd say it does. If not a flush after 5-10min can't hurt either. Hope its all going well.

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    • #17
      Thanks for the tips. I don't have access to fine temperature probe at the moment. I do however flush the group head and the portafilter before I grind the beans. So far, the coffee tastes quite good, but then I'm coming from capsules so everything tastes good. Have experimented a little here and there with grind, tamp, duration etc. but I think I have to take it slowly as I've been getting a buzz from all the caffeine.

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      • #18
        I signed up to this forum specifically to reply to this thread. I did a lot of research when looking to buy my coffee machine, and found a lot of people bashing the 870 (maybe not in this thread, but they're out there) and recommending Rancilio/La Pavoni etc. I bought a BES 870 on an impulse during a runout sale. I must say, this machine is very impressive. Admittedly, it's recommended retail price is greater than what I think the machine is. That said, the coffee that the BES870 makes is miles ahead of many cafes.

        I really don't think it's worth dropping a premium on 'Italian brands'. There's nothing wrong with a thermocoil system. It's fast, effective and relatively efficient. I guess the only thing is "Breville" is a bit of a household brand name so you don't get the status of having some obscure italian coffee machine for guests to gawk at when they come over to visit.

        The machine will heat up inside of a minute. After that, I flush the portafilter/group head with a shot or two into my cup to get everything heated up. I always turn of the machine once I am done. Our household consumes between 3 to 6 coffees a day, depending on the mood. In about a week. The machine uses approximately 0.3 kw of power per day with my usage regime. This is with me turning it off when Im done -- after I have a few months data I will leave the machine on and see if there is any benefit in switch it off manually or not (at any rate it will go to sleep if unused for a bit).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by breakaway View Post
          I really don't think it's worth dropping a premium on 'Italian brands'.
          give it 5-10 years and see which one is still running and retains resale value.
          The Shiny Italians are predominantly "mechanical" machines with the bare minimum of electronics inside them. Especially as you move to E61 Machines.

          It's not saying that the quality you get in the cup is any better or worse from either new machine.
          But some people will make purchases with longevity or resale value in mind.

          You may be Happy driving a Hyundai Getz, I'd prefer the Audi A1 or VW Polo.
          All are small cars that get you to work.....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Robbks View Post
            give it 5-10 years and see which one is still running and retains resale value.

            You may be Happy driving a Hyundai Getz, I'd prefer the Audi A1 or VW Polo.
            All are small cars that get you to work.....
            Resale value ?.. or cost of ownership ??
            I suspect i know which one will loose the most value over 5 years !
            ...and then there is the matter of having $2k tied up for 5 years in a shiny box in the kitchen !


            And you do know the Getz was voted best small car for 2 years running !

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            • #21
              It's all about lifestyle! I'm happy with my Giotto V3 at home while BES820 did a good job in the office. and new Swift for my wife & mine is new Liberty GT Premium.

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              • #22
                I have always bought my coffee machines to make great coffee. Not for their resale value.

                To make money I invest in shares and managed funds to give me an income so that I can afford to make coffee.

                I now have a Breville BES900. When I no longer needed my previous machines I either gave them to friends or sent them to the dump.

                Barry

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by blend52 View Post
                  And you do know the Getz was voted best small car for 2 years running !
                  When, where and by whom?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
                    When, where and by whom?
                    for those that doubt my word....
                    Australia's Best Small Car in 2003 and 2005
                    Scottish Small Car of the Year award in 2003
                    UK What Car? Magazine Budget Car of the Year in 2003
                    Budget car champion on the UK motoring programme Fifth Gear in 2003
                    Denmark's Best Seller of 2003 award
                    Portuguese Car of the Year for 2004 (1.5 CRDI)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by blend52 View Post
                      for those that doubt my word....
                      You originally wrote the following: Originally Posted by blend52And you do know the Getz was voted best small car for 2 years running

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                      • #26
                        Oops, yes sorry....I should have said "3 years running" !
                        03,04, and 05 !
                        The words .. "pedantic" ..
                        ..and " dick" spring to mind. !

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                        • #27
                          So... citing gongs awarded to a since superceeded car dating back anywhere from 9 to 11 years ago, from a number of different reviewers from different countries meets your definitions of "2 [or even 3] years running" and relevance?

                          You say "pedantic" whereas I prefer "accurate"
                          You say "dick" and I say "whatever"

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                          • #28
                            I had a few friends who had Getzs. Whoever voted them best in class was paid, or on drugs.

                            Sure, if you're main criteria are ease of parking and price, you might like one. By most other measures POS would be polite. In a head to head with an Audi, I know which one I'd want to be in

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                            • #29
                              Hyundai's from anything after the X3 Excel and before about 3 years ago were pretty terrible if we're honest.

                              If I was to compare to coffee machines, like this conversation seemed to be about before people decided to get argumentative, the Excel is a mid level domestic coffee machine (Breville, Sunbeam, Krups etc).
                              They don't look very good, don't perform that well but with some work they'll take care of you and last quite a while.

                              Any Hyundai made between 1999-2011 is instant coffee or an Aldi pod machine.

                              Hyundai's made between 2011-present day are high end Breville and Sunbeam machines. Look good, work pretty well, full of technology, easy to use and maintain (that could be debated I suppose) but deep down they're still not on the same level as the Euro's.

                              I was going to liken my Mazda 3 MPS to a coffee machine but I'm not sure what machine is enough of a weapon or Euro killer to match it huehuehuehe.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
                                I was going to liken my Mazda 3 MPS to a coffee machine but I'm not sure what machine is enough of a weapon or Euro killer to match it huehuehuehe.
                                I also can't think of an existing machine that would match your MPS... but if one were ever built it would be Japanese built, have a small footprint, with a honking great 2.5 litre boiler crammed inside with at least 5000W of power and you would have to keep a firm grip on the wheel.... errrr.... group handle... when using it to keep it from twisting itself right out of your hand

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