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Help for a newbie BES 870 vs 920

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    When, where and by whom?
    I think it is still voted 'The Car from Ipanema'

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
      So... citing gongs awarded to a since superceeded car dating back anywhere from 9 to 11 years ago, from a number of different reviewers from different countries meets your definitions of "2 [or even 3] years running, and relevance ? "
      Relevance ?......i answered your question
      Awards from many different countries....... Suggests it was widely regarded.
      i didn't raise the Getz as a topic, someone else did that.
      I didn't say it was any good, I simply said it had won several awards.
      I could have pointed out that it was unrealistic to compare a 15 year old car with a current model ,...but that was not the issue !

      Comment


      • #33
        Comparing coffee machines to cars is silly. A Hyundai Getz has no dual zone A/C, no climate control, no traction control, no cruise control, no trip computer and virtually no sound deadning which makes your ears ring after a short trip at highway speeds.

        Paying extra for the euro is worth it, because there is a tangilbe benfit to be realised EVERY TIME you use the car. This does not hold true for an italian machine vs a more mainstream brand.

        The Shiny Italians are predominantly "mechanical" machines with the bare minimum of electronics inside them. Especially as you move to E61 Machines.

        [...]

        But some people will make purchases with longevity or resale value in mind.
        Ah yes.. longevity. The Audi you prefer has many more electronic features requiring an order of magnitude more sensors, wiring and assorted electrical components. Increased likelihood of failure there too. Once the car ages, it will cost a bomb to run as the adaptive suspension, quattro AWD controller and fly-by-wire gearbox (or in case of the VW, the DSG gearbox) start to let go.

        At the end of the day the BES 870 is cheap and even a 60% loss of its resale value is less than a (very conservative) 30% loss of value during reasle of an obscure italian machine. Bottom line, the cheaper machine has a lower total cost of ownership even after factoring resale value.

        And you admit that "It's not saying that the quality you get in the cup is any better or worse from either new machine." -- So why pay the huge premium?
        Last edited by breakaway; 11 July 2014, 03:25 PM.

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        • #34
          What a delightful thread.......... very entertaining..........

          especially when it comes to the part about "obscure Italian machines", "sending ( appliance machines ) them

          to the dump", "shiny boxes" and ....... cars????!!!!! :-D

          Keep it coming guys, I can always do with a laugh! ;-)

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by breakaway View Post
            Comparing coffee machines to cars is silly.
            Yes ..Agreed, but so is comparing car features from a 15 year old budget design to a current model Euro prestige make !

            Financially its a no brainer decision,..beyond that it becomes simply personal preferences
            If you bought them today, the Getz might cost you $6k , but the A1 would cost $20 +k ( $26.5k - $42k new list)
            So you are paying an extra ~$20k for those benefits !
            An i20 would have been a more sensible comparison ( current model) ..but that is only $10k cheaper than the A1 ..
            And lets not get into service costs, reliability, depreciation etc etc.

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            • #36
              Coming back to the thread's theme: I own a BES900 and a smart grinder for 2 years. After a few weeks practices I started to make better coffee than what I can get at most cafes. The BES900 is said to be a lot better in terms of temperature stability, a key aspect for good espresso, than the BES870. The BDBs come full of features to give more control to the user (i.e. temperature and pre-infussion settings can be changed).

              The more expensive Italian machines may have two advantages over the BDBs: "cool looks" vs "appliance looks" and reliability. Indeed, I've had the o-ring failure (solved) and I need to keep the portafilter lugs dry to prevent it from flying away. Most likely they have solved these problems in the 920.

              I hope that helps.

              Comment


              • #37
                To the OP: coffee is a journey. In the last six months I've gone from capsules to a BES870, and now I even roast my own beans in an air popper.


                Would I like an Italian HX machine? Yep. What about an awesome grinder to go with it? Of course!

                But right now, the Breville does a damn good job for the money. It, along with CS and other online forums, have given me a great introduction to the coffee journey.

                Every morning I am reminded through patience, persistence, and consistency, that I can be a snob with it.

                A few BES 870 tips:
                • You'll achieve a more consistent shot by using the double basket
                • Use electronic scales and aim for between 16-18g depending on the beans
                • Flush the group head once to remove any old grinds, then repeat with portafilter in the group
                • Dry said portafilter and dose your coffee
                • Keep beans out of the hopper so they don't heat up with the machine, and only ever use what you need at the time. You can unlock the hopper and pour unused beans back into storage. Also, any beans in the burrs, I grind and take to work for plunging.
                • For lighter roasts use the Advanced Controls to raise the brew temperature. Someone else noted that this reduces unnecessary acidity. I agree - my own blends are amazing as a result
                • When steaming milk, turn on steam and let it develop to full intensity. Unlike standard machines, the Breville BES will only activate steam when the dial is switched to it. You want the steam to be 'dry'. Once this ks achieved, quickly turn off, insert wand into jug and turn back on.
                • For maintenance, clean the grinder regularly. It quickly collects old grounds. Buy a toothbrush for a more rigorous brushing.
                • I find that with the cleaning tablets, the light comes on often because I flush a lot. I only use the tablet cleaner every couple of months now, as it takes a while to purge the tablet odour from the machine.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
                  I also can't think of an existing machine that would match your MPS...
                  Serious?

                  How about my My RS265 Megane

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ElShauno View Post
                    To the OP: coffee is a journey. In the last six months I've gone from capsules to a BES870, and now I even roast my own beans in an air popper.


                    Would I like an Italian HX machine? Yep. What about an awesome grinder to go with it? Of course!

                    But right now, the Breville does a damn good job for the money. It, along with CS and other online forums, have given me a great introduction to the coffee journey.

                    Every morning I am reminded through patience, persistence, and consistency, that I can be a snob with it.

                    A few BES 870 tips:
                    • You'll achieve a more consistent shot by using the double basket
                    • Use electronic scales and aim for between 16-18g depending on the beans
                    • Flush the group head once to remove any old grinds, then repeat with portafilter in the group
                    • Dry said portafilter and dose your coffee
                    • Keep beans out of the hopper so they don't heat up with the machine, and only ever use what you need at the time. You can unlock the hopper and pour unused beans back into storage. Also, any beans in the burrs, I grind and take to work for plunging.
                    • For lighter roasts use the Advanced Controls to raise the brew temperature. Someone else noted that this reduces unnecessary acidity. I agree - my own blends are amazing as a result
                    • When steaming milk, turn on steam and let it develop to full intensity. Unlike standard machines, the Breville BES will only activate steam when the dial is switched to it. You want the steam to be 'dry'. Once this ks achieved, quickly turn off, insert wand into jug and turn back on.
                    • For maintenance, clean the grinder regularly. It quickly collects old grounds. Buy a toothbrush for a more rigorous brushing.
                    • I find that with the cleaning tablets, the light comes on often because I flush a lot. I only use the tablet cleaner every couple of months now, as it takes a while to purge the tablet odour from the machine.
                    All great tips.

                    Can you get micro foam with your machine? I can get decent froth, however, it's just not good enough for latte art, makes great coffee and it's very frustrating and the only problem I have with this machine.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ElShauno View Post
                      To the OP: coffee is a journey. In the last six months I've gone from capsules to a BES870, and now I even roast my own beans in an air popper.


                      Would I like an Italian HX machine? Yep. What about an awesome grinder to go with it? Of course!

                      But right now, the Breville does a damn good job for the money. It, along with CS and other online forums, have given me a great introduction to the coffee journey.

                      Every morning I am reminded through patience, persistence, and consistency, that I can be a snob with it.

                      A few BES 870 tips:
                      • You'll achieve a more consistent shot by using the double basket
                      • Use electronic scales and aim for between 16-18g depending on the beans
                      • Flush the group head once to remove any old grinds, then repeat with portafilter in the group
                      • Dry said portafilter and dose your coffee
                      • Keep beans out of the hopper so they don't heat up with the machine, and only ever use what you need at the time. You can unlock the hopper and pour unused beans back into storage. Also, any beans in the burrs, I grind and take to work for plunging.
                      • For lighter roasts use the Advanced Controls to raise the brew temperature. Someone else noted that this reduces unnecessary acidity. I agree - my own blends are amazing as a result
                      • When steaming milk, turn on steam and let it develop to full intensity. Unlike standard machines, the Breville BES will only activate steam when the dial is switched to it. You want the steam to be 'dry'. Once this ks achieved, quickly turn off, insert wand into jug and turn back on.
                      • For maintenance, clean the grinder regularly. It quickly collects old grounds. Buy a toothbrush for a more rigorous brushing.
                      • I find that with the cleaning tablets, the light comes on often because I flush a lot. I only use the tablet cleaner every couple of months now, as it takes a while to purge the tablet odour from the machine.
                      absolute gold - thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Brevillista View Post
                        All great tips.

                        Can you get micro foam with your machine? I can get decent froth, however, it's just not good enough for latte art, makes great coffee and it's very frustrating and the only problem I have with this machine.
                        Best way to do this is to get a smaller jug. I get great results with the smaller jug, I'm guessing because it's a greater steam-power to milk ratio.

                        A few recent examples (I'm not perfect, but now and then get something that manages to impress friends!):

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ElShauno View Post
                          Best way to do this is to get a smaller jug. I get great results with the smaller jug, I'm guessing because it's a greater steam-power to milk ratio.

                          A few recent examples (I'm not perfect, but now and then get something that manages to impress friends!):

                          [ATTACH]8776[/ATTACH][ATTACH]8777[/ATTACH]
                          good idea -will give it a try. thanks

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hey, do you know what size jug you got? I was thinking the same thing, the one the machine came with seems too large. Great art by the way, I haven't been able to make a damn thing yet! I think I'm introducing a bit too much air so it's getting too thick. I'm finding different recommendations online how much you should stretch the milk, from 20% to 100%.

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