Newbie looking at EM7000 or BES840

[tony86]

Hello All!

I am kind of new to all this and am looking to make my first entry (on a budget <=$1000). Would appreciate some advice.

At the moment am looking at either the Sunbeam EM7000 (have read the feedback thread and it seems some people have had a few issues, but for the most part is a decent machine)
or
the Breville BES840, I haven't found much around here on peoples experience (please point me in the right direction if I have missed anything) but from what I gather the thermocouple design is slightly better than the EM7000's thermoblock? However the EM7000 is a dual thermoblock so no delay between brew and steam, which is a plus.

So what I am really looking for is anyones experiences that would sway me toward one over the other, or anyones advice for a newbie like myself looking for a midrange machine.

Thanks in advance,

Tony

[Pukako]

Hi Tony86.

Well, you've got to start somewhere, and this price range isn't so bad. One thing to watch for is that whatever machine you get, the performance will be greatly influenced by your grinder (also your beans, but you can change them reasonably easily). Read a lot in this forum, ask questions, and try to match them.

For myself, I have a Sunbeam EM7000, and I do like it. Mind you, I had a Sunbeam EM6910 for 5 1/2 years, and it was ok. The 7000 is a lot easier, less touchy, and produces more consistent shots. I've never really liked Breville, not too sure why.

Sorry this isn't much help, but good luck!

[Robbks]

Hi Tony.

Firstly, how many drinks to you usually need to make
and always milky, always black, or a combination.

I've had machines from both Sunbeam, Breville and now a good Italian brand.

Each have their pro's and con's but always depends on your usage.

Also where are you located, visiting one of the site sponsors stores might open up a world you haven;t thought of.

[tony86]

Thanks for you responses Pukako and Robbks.

Pukako, I have read that the ginder is very important and to that end I have been looking at the Breville BCG820BSS. The Sunbeam looks good, although I was put off by the thermoblock design as I have read that they are not the best for temperature stability (then again being new to this I probably won't notice the difference) and are prone to leaking. The thermocouple design of the Breville seems to offer better temperature stability and is of a single block design, although is a single thermo unit machine. What have been your experiences with the EM7000?

Robbks, I am pretty light on. Perhaps 1-2 drinks a day usually all milky. I am located in Adelaide - just read about the quote form and submitted.

Thanks guys!

[TRRR]

Hi Tony, have a look at the le'lit combi Lelit Combi (PL042EMI). This machine with inbuilt grinder is $1k including delivery. If you can afford it upgrade to the PID model for an extra $250 - guaranteed to make you a great coffee and the lelit will outlast about 5 sunbeams.

[Robbks]

Personally, for that usage,
I'd be looking at one of the "simple" small italian machines, possibly even second-hand with a PID fitted. and a good quality grinder.

The tried and trusted Silvia (with PID) + Rocky combination is hard to beat

here in the FS section.
$700 Silvia and Rocky

Add some postage and you're well under $1000, leaving room for a PID upgrade, or just learn the "temperature surfing" routine with the machine.

While they may not have all the flashing lights and buzzers of the others, equal (if not better) shot quality and longevity, plus resale value weigh in it's favour

[TampIt]

Personally, for that usage,
I'd be looking at one of the "simple" small italian machines, possibly even second-hand with a PID fitted. and a good quality grinder.

The tried and trusted Silvia (with PID) + Rocky combination is hard to beat

here in the FS section.
$700 Silvia and Rocky

Add some postage and you're well under $1000, leaving room for a PID upgrade, or just learn the "temperature surfing" routine with the machine.

While they may not have all the flashing lights and buzzers of the others, equal (if not better) shot quality and longevity, plus resale value weigh in it's favour

Hi Robbks

Did you read the OP? Newbie and milky are the two key words.

Newbie: responsible for roughly one "blown boiler" Silvia per week in the west at each repairer I know. One error and they join the dead as the boiler is circa a $500 repair here. Shared households and small businesses with > one user even more likely to blow one.
FYI, I had a Silvia for nine years (still original boiler until the next owner destroyed it within a month by running it out of water) but I am far from a newbie... I cannot believe they still lack a low water warning light / buzzer / anything.

Milky: means ANY single thermo / boiler is off the list UNLESS you wish to run a separate milk frother (and have the room in the kitchen...). Why?

Option A: Do the shot first. Watch the crema dissipate whilst waiting for the milk to froth. Tastes like starbucks by the time you put it together...
Option B: Do the milk first. Forget lattes / latte art as the milk will be sitting around far too long for anything other than cappuccinos.
Option C: Use a much larger jug and throw out 50%+ of the milk every time you make a cuppa.

Personally, if I cannot deliver coffee shot & milk within 5 seconds of each other I regard it as a fail (sink shot).

FWIW, having also lived with a wide variety of other machines, I would suggest the OP springs for a SB 7000 as they are one of the easiest machines to live with in a cleaning and maintenance sense. Apart from the control knobs (which some users manage to break, no idea how) and some user misunderstandings* they seem very reliable. They are also SWMBO friendly, both in terms of "easy for them to drive" and lack of noise. May be a factor for some newbies.

user misunderstandings*: e.g. the 7000's steam wand is designed to stop then start again at a (much) lower pressure after you turn it off so it does not build up milk inside the wand very easily. Confuses hell out of some users. The end result for "those in the know": brilliant idea, so easy to keep the wand clean...

Grinders: For the remaining budget, SB 480+ / Breville Smart+ / secondhand something. Or add $500 to the budget and get a Mahklkonig Vario Gen 2 or better (if you can find it).

First upgrade: buy a better grinder. Much more important than the machine anyway.

Just my 2 cents worth.

TampIt

[Robbks]

I really think we're taking the snobbery too far.

Newbie: He's managed to find CS, as such and would likely be smart enough to do a little research, ask questions and learn.
My machine has all the buzzers and lights for low water, but i have a routine where topping up the reservoir is the FIRST thing I do as I switch on the machine.
You get into a habit of doing everything else in the process, when to grind, when to tamp, when to purge, it's just anotehr step.

Milky,
Option A: Refer to you first argument.. Newbie, probably won;t taste the difference
Option B: Do the milk first, but don't just let it sit, give it a swirl every 10-15 seconds and the sit it back on top of the machine.

Really, what's the time involved to get the silvia to drop the temps down ready to pull a shot, 10-15 seconds with a good flush?
30 seconds to pour.

[Fard]

I agree with Tampit,
Value for money I would go with the 7000 all day. I have the SB 700 grinder to match and I am very happy.
The silvia is a great machine but I would still go with the SB 7000.

[TampIt]

My machine has all the buzzers and lights for low water, but i have a routine where topping up the reservoir is the FIRST thing I do as I switch on the machine.
You get into a habit of doing everything else in the process, when to grind, when to tamp, when to purge, it's just anotehr step.

Hi Robbks

Glad to hear a Silvia finally has the most basic low water function covered after all these years. I always felt they were only making a profit by selling so many more of them due to premature deaths.

I really think we're taking the snobbery too far.

I don't!

Option A: Refer to you first argument.. Newbie, probably won;t taste the difference

... and I think that deliberately confining a newbie to a second rate Latte is close to criminal, especially when "milky" is their chosen drink.

Option B: Do the milk first, but don't just let it sit, give it a swirl every 10-15 seconds and the sit it back on top of the machine.

Really, what's the time involved to get the silvia to drop the temps down ready to pull a shot, 10-15 seconds with a good flush?
30 seconds to pour.

... in other words, either waste 50% of the milk (clearly your preferred method) or never pick up that extra bit of sweetness that correctly made microfoam can reward you with.


My ethics are clear: give the guy a recommendation that allows him to get the best, easiest option to achieve his stated goal. Adding extra obstacles is actually what I regard as "taking the snobbery too far".

TampIt

[Kat77]

If you have a look on gumtree it is choked up with secondhand sunbeam and breville machines. I bet half of them are faulty or are from people upgrading to Italian machines. I am with Robbks, go with an Italian machine, they have better quality parts, brass instead of plastic, they can be repaired more easily and they look sexier! If you are on this site you have probably caught a bit of the coffee bug so get some good gear! If you write off the cost over 10 years the cost is insignificant

[Robbks]

FIrstly, I never said it HAD to be a silvia..

.....one of the "simple" small italian machines, possibly even second-hand with a PID fitted. and a good quality grinder.

And I've got a Dual Boiler Lelit, for pumping out volume (6-8) milky drinks in succession.
but the OP won't get one of those plus a grinder for <$1000.

Dopes this also mean that all our site sponsors are giving bad advice to a number of new users and selling them machines that make poor coffee, when they recommend a SIlvia, any of the PL04xx Lelit machines, etc...

Take a look at this..
2014 Latte Art champion takes 31 Seconds from the end of her pour to get milk in the first cup.
ANd an entire extra 50 seconds until it goes in the second.
they're pretty but should have been poured down the sink due to your logic.

2014 Australian Latte Art Champion Rie Moustakas - YouTube

I hope the OP enjoys their coffee journey no matter where it starts from..
I'm out.

[papagoose]

Personally, if I cannot deliver coffee shot & milk within 5 seconds of each other I regard it as a fail (sink shot).

Too right! Of course, I often burn myself trying to finish the coffee in the next 5 seconds, but that's the only way to enjoy the best coffee. I suppose next you'll be saying that the first 5 seconds of the shot is stale and ruined by the last part of the shot...

[Robbks]

Too right! Of course, I often burn myself trying to finish the coffee in the next 5 seconds, but that's the only way to enjoy the best coffee. I suppose next you'll be saying that the first 5 seconds of the shot is stale and ruined by the last part of the shot...

[Barry_Duncan]

Take a look at this..
2014 Latte Art champion takes 31 Seconds from the end of her pour to get milk in the first cup.
ANd an entire extra 50 seconds until it goes in the second.
they're pretty but should have been poured down the sink due to your logic.

Take note. That is an art comp not a barista comp. They are for looking at not for drinking. Perhaps they would end up being poured down the sink as you can't hang them up on the wall.

I don't worry about art. I make my coffee to drink.

Barry